• The “Mega-Problems” of Mega-Churches

    October 5, 2011

    A couple weeks ago now I said that a few blog posts had caught my attention and driven me to some refelction.

    The first ones were by Mike Breen – about the relationship b/t discipleship and the missional movement.  You can check out his thoughts in Part 1 and Part 2.  My reflection on these posts came out here.

    The other post was by Ed Stetzer – a return to the whole “can mega churches be missional” debate. He still says they can, I still say they can’t.  But, as I’ve reflected more on this, here are the things that have become clearer to me, what I’ll call the “mega-problems” of mega-churches.

    I think it needs to be acknowledged that the problem isn’t size in and of itself. Who would possibly be against a huge church of fully devoted follower of Jesus on mission with God?! Not this guy. But here’s the thing, those of us who have icky feelings in our stomachs about mega-chuches do so because they tend to be built on characteristics and practices that actually work against this vision.  Here’s a few that came to mind…

    1) Consumer-Oriented Structures

    Very often mega-churches are mega because they emphasize meeting the needs, or at least captivating the interest of religious consumers of all stripes.  This will strike many of us as unfortunate right off the bat, but to take it a step further, I would highlight the even greater harm that is done when church leaders come right out and acknowledge that they do this (even if they prefer different language), but believe it to be in the service of the Gospel.  Here, we have baptized a market-driven strategy that treats people like objects and leads them to believe that they, rather that God, are what is of ultimate significance.

    2) Celebrity-Driven Culture

    Mega-churches tend to be personality driven.  There is generally one (almost always male) leader who leads as if they were a CEO of an organization rather than as a humble servant.  These are people who reflect our culture’s desire and drive for upward mobility while leading a community whose character is to be predicated on its downward mobility – becoming less and less so that Jesus might become more and more.  This aspect of mega-church culture is perpetuated as we get lulled into believing the cultural lie that a bigger platform is always a good thing for the kingdom.  Sadly, in baptizing this mentality, we have failed to remember that we follow Jesus, who refused exactly this temptation.

    3) Sunday-Cenricity

    Mega-churches tend to put the vast majority of their time, attention, and resources into weekend services.  Nothing wrong with gathering.  Nothing wrong with gathering with hundreds, even thousands of other believers.  Very much something wrong (from a missional perspective) with these gatherings becoming the driving point of our ecclesiology and the aspect of community life that eats up huge amounts of resources.  It doesn’t matter how compellingly you preach or teach on “being missional;” so long as that message is coming through the medium of a context that engenders passive involvement, it is rendered useless.

    4) Inward-Focused Financial Structures

    Related to the point above, mega-churches tend to create financial structures that are designed to “keep the machine running,” thereby inhibiting a community’s ability to leverage financial resources that will benefit others – who may or may not ever be part of your church community.  Mega-churches require mega-staffs, mega-facilities, and mega-ministry budgets.  Once you have these things in place and people’s livelihoods become contingent on church growth, moving in a truly “missional direction,” becomes all but impossible.  If it does come, it will be at tremendous cost.

    5) Seating over Sending

    All of this works itself together to result in an ecclesiology that is more disposed to a focus on seating over sending.  And when I say sending, I mean sending – raising people up as mature disciples and skilled Kingdom leaders and releasing them… really releasing them.  Most of the “sending” that mega-churches do is about continuing to build their own little empire – multiple locations, video venues, franchises, etc.

    I fully recognize that you can embody all of these characteristics and not be, by definition, a mega-church.  This is precisely my point – it’s not really about size, it’s about the ecclesial characteristics and underlying theology that creates and drives this sort of church system. So when I say mega-churches can’t be missional, what I really mean is you can’t continue to be a sunday-centric, celebrity-driven church that engenders a consumeristic attitude toward Christian faith by creating inward focused financial structures and building your own personal church-brand empire.  Continuing to be this sort of church while using missional language and encouraging people to serve others more does not a missional church make!

    Am I off here?  Where’s the pushback?  What else would you add to this list?

    Related Posts

    1. Being Truly Missional
    2. Transitioning Traditional Churches into Missional Ones
    3. The Missiological Future of Theological Education – Training Kingdom Citizens

    Posted in: capitalism, culture, discipleship, Jesus, kingdom, missional, missional theology, money, preaching/teaching, theology

Recent Comments

  • Dad G said...

    1

    Wonderful… I have been “preaching” this for some time. I think #2 is your strongest argument, and #3 your weakest. But I could be wrong.

    10/5/11 7:44 PM | Comment Link

  • jrrozko said...

    2

    Suppose that puts me in good company then ;) I suppose I gave the least amount of attention to #3 because of how thoroughly a broad array of people have come to realize that being sunday-centric just doesn't result in the equipping of true disciples – people who are passionate about and capable of joining in on God's mission in the world. Gathering is important for sure, but Western Christianity has become so cognitive that we've complete lost a vision of being the church in the way Jesus was with his disciples.

    10/5/11 8:15 PM | Comment Link

  • e4unity said...

    3

    I think the problems are self evident 4 anyone who is informed by Biblical theology and is seeking honest enquiry re. the merits vs. problems. It's a very old model in the west and will always be with us. I'm ready to give those who devote themselves to it sincerly the respect it deserves. But at the same time I'm convinced the net gains are probably not helping the Church be the Church as God intends in our society.
    One additional characteristic of larger churches that I have observed for almost 5 decades: they never have enough workers! They seem to have to constantly beg for everything from sunday school teachers to ushers & it is common for the 'guilt' trip to be the default medium used. The mega churches never have enough money which makes them very budget-driven which is definitely counter-Gospel in essence.

    How do we proclaim the whole Gospel to the masses still manages to elude us. We feel deep down inside that the answer has to involve the principle of the mobilization of the whole Church joyfully embracing & participating in the Mission of the Master. But this can not be accomplished w/ a program but only by the dynamic of the Word & Spirit.

    10/6/11 8:10 AM | Comment Link

  • jrrozko said...

    4

    Thanks for your comment. I have definitely seen this reality of the constant need for volunteers to staff all the various programs played out. There is this air of servanthood to it, but more than anything, it seems like it just stymies peoples growth as they are more inclined to feel like they have checked the "I serve somewhere" box as opposed to having been invited into a discipleship relationship where they might develop the competency for kingdom leadership.

    10/6/11 9:19 AM | Comment Link

  • @toodus said...

    5

    JR,
    Originally when I read this post, I was a little frustrated (I'm currently developing anti-consumeristic, missional community driven, externally focused structures in the context of a mega church…we really are a mega church who is aiming to do all that you talk about here), but then I read this quote at the end:

    "This is precisely my point – it’s not really about size, it’s about the ecclesial characteristics and underlying theology that creates and drives this sort of church system. So when I say mega-churches can’t be missional, what I really mean is you can’t continue to be a sunday-centric, celebrity-driven church that engenders a consumeristic attitude toward Christian faith by creating inward focused financial structures and building your own personal church-brand empire. Continuing to be this sort of church while using missional language and encouraging people to serve others more does not a missional church make!"

    That definitely gave me some understanding as to what you're trying to say..ultimately it's not about size, it's about the systemic discipleship of people away from consumers toward being missionaries. I'm in complete agreement.

    Not to critique your presentation style, but I think it'd be helpful to be more clear on that on the front end…it's not "mega-church" that's faulty (as if all mega churches are the same), it's the consumer-oriented churches, regardless of size, that are failing to disciple people away from their consumption and toward a life of engaged mission.

    Anyway, thanks for your writing, it's incisive and needed, I'm just advocating for the very few of us in the "mega" world who are actually trying to be the church in the same way you speak of it :) .

    Grace and Peace,
    Todd Engstrom
    Pastor of Missional Communities
    The Austin Stone Community Church
    My recent post Updates on Camden

    10/6/11 9:29 AM | Comment Link

  • jrrozko said...

    6

    Hey Todd, thanks for reading and taking the time to comment. Did you catch this line at the beginning of the post, "I think it needs to be acknowledged that the problem isn’t size in and of itself. Who would possibly be against a huge church of fully devoted follower of Jesus on mission with God?! Not this guy." I really did want to get out in front of exactly the criticism that you mentioned, but maybe I could have done better. By the way, I hear only good things about Austin Stone – Stew is a friend of mine.

    I'd probably still want to push in a little on how a church remains "mega" without dismantling huge staffs, budgets, and financial structures that are leveraged primarily toward making worship services happen, but, and I mean this with all sincerity, if there is a church out there that might have something to teach others on this, it just may be Austin Stone – you'd of course know better than me. I am just wary of the effects of the mentality that believes it is appropriate to continue using mega-church sorts of paradigms and structures so long as people are on board with trying to move people toward something else. On that count, I am very much a "the medium is the message sort of guy." Care to share some more about some of the ways that Austin Stone is dealing with stuff along those lines? I am genuinely interested!

    10/6/11 9:43 AM | Comment Link

  • Ben Sternke said...

    7

    My first thought when reading this was similar to Todd's. It was, "All of these problems can be found in plenty of small churches as well."

    So while you did preface the post with those qualifying comments, I really am not sure that there is much difference between a consumer-driven church of 100 and a consumer-driven church of 10,000, besides perhaps complexity. The fundamental mindset and strategic changes that need to happen would be remarkably similar in both cases.

    And I second JR's question about the specific ways that Austin Stone is developing missional structures within a large-church environment!

    10/6/11 4:12 PM | Comment Link

  • Todd Engstrom said...

    8

    Sorry for missing that first comment…should have been a little more discerning!

    As for your critique, I’d say that your philosophy on the Sunday gathering is directly correlated to your view that “the medium is the message”.  The assumption being that because the structure/function/message has the capacity to output a certain behavior, it by definition is complicit in the action.

    While a form may contribute to a particular action, I think the “method is the message” argument ultimately understates the depravity of the human heart in the equation.  You could easily just say that the medium of the forbidden fruit was the “message” that cause Adam and Eve to sin.  I will say that the medium can contribute, but I don’t think it is the primary cause.  This is why we are committed to continuing a Christ-exalting Sunday gathering, and utilize the medium to communicate another message – we exist for Jesus, not Jesus for us.  We think the medium of Sundays can be redeemed for a different message!

    As for the budgets/staff and other bells and whistles, we view our budget through the lens of mission – how does everything we do contribute to the making of disciples, including worship and preaching.  We realize worship and preaching are insufficient means for discipleship, but they sure are helpful (and biblical!) tools for equipping the saints for the work of ministry.  I’m not convinced at this point that the only way to make disciples is by completely decentralized, sodalic-only structures.  There is a great place for the organization…even the best “organic” movements out there (Forge, Missio, Soma) still have a necessity for centralized organizational structures.

    We can argue about how those resources are allocated for certain, but simply doing away with large staffs and big budgets isn’t the answer.  It’s reorienting those around the mission, and in different contexts that looks differently.  

    At The Stone, we are very intentional to hold our budget up to the light of mission – is the organization making disciples and bearing fruit (we’re in the process of sending 112 missionaries to unreached people groups around the globe, we are having a great deal of impact in neighborhood and pockets of people throughout the city via missional communities, we’re having systemic impact organizationally through the For the City Network…).  If we ever stop making Jesus famous and our organization gets in the way of that end goal, then we’ll reevaluate.  

    Finally, I think the argument between mega often gets caught up in the fact that there are still consumers as part of our congregations.  This is true for The Stone…we still have a number of people who come only on Sundays and simply consume.  But they don’t stay that way for long :) .  We believe that as much as the 60% of people who would never darken the doors of a church need to be engaged through missional communities, so too do those who are nominally Christian but far from God, and a Sunday service is actually good contextualization.  The gospel is the powerful for both people groups, and there is great latent potential in the dormant church today (especially in the South).

    Ultimately, to be a megachurch that as missional requires redrawing the target, both organizationally and for the individuals. Organizationally, are you making an impact in your city and utilizing corporate resources toward that end?  Individually, are you attenders moving from a consumer to a missionary?  That’s precisely how we define success – Budgets, Butts in Seats, and Buildings are all subservient metrics toward that greater outcome.

    Hope that helps you understand us a little more and let me know if you need more clarification!

    Grace and Peace,
    Todd

    10/6/11 5:43 PM | Comment Link

  • jrrozko said...

    9

    Right. I guess this just serves as a reminder that the real focus in the "missional conversation" isn't so much church size (mega vs. smaller), but theology and ecclesiology – things which drive churches no matter their size. It's easy to pick on mega-churches because they're like the fat kid in dodge-ball, but we probably need to work harder in helping people understand what we think is really at stake rather than being accused of just being anti-large church.

    10/7/11 7:24 AM | Comment Link

  • jrrozko said...

    10

    Thanks for taking the time to share all that Todd. Helpful to have a better picture of what, how, and why you guys are doing what you're doing. Sounds great on many counts.

    Not sure I followed you on using the fruit of the tree as an analogy for the medium being the message – there may be a category confusion there. I remain pretty convinced that very often our mediums and messages are directly antithetical to one another. It just doesn't work, in my opinion, to teach on the incarnational nature of Christian witness via a video feed, or talk about the value of replicating and sending leaders when people gather primarily to hear from the same person week after week. I've heard it said before that what we win people with we win them to. From experiential and theological perspectives I buy that, which is why I remain skeptical of using less-than-missional means to garner an audience with the hope of converting them to something else. At a basic level I remain a guy convinced that we should follow Jesus' example of inviting people, at the very beginning of our interaction with them, into the kind of life that God would have for them.

    All that being said, it sounds like God is us to some great stuff at the Stone. Blessings on all the stuff you are doing. Hope we get to connect in person at some point.

    10/7/11 7:38 AM | Comment Link

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    11

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    11/18/11 4:33 AM | Comment Link

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    12

    [...] The mega problems of mega churchesWhy Christian TV will get worse before it gets better [...]

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  • maxwell batepe said...

    13

    to come to the knowlege of a true church we need function in the pattern of christ ministry on earth and the revelation we recieves from the holy spirit for a smooth run of a church that will acess souls into God’s kingdom.

    12/28/11 1:12 AM | Comment Link

  • tater said...

    14

    Wow. I attend a church with 6 services of approx 1000 people each. We are in training to start house churches with a “missional” focus. I think the spirit wants me to start a missional house church to church members that want to connect with other believers, be they believers or not. Thx for article.

    01/23/12 8:51 PM | Comment Link

  • Tracie said...

    15

    JR, I've never read your blog before, I just came upon it while doing some searches on the web. You post really hit home with me, because we (my husband and I) are facing some serious issues. I don't know if I have a specific question. Maybe I'm looking for some confirmation, I don't know. We are in a tough situation where we don't have many people to talk to about what we're dealing with. Maybe this isn't the correct way to talk about what we're dealing with, but I think if anyone could possibly understand, it would be you. So here I go, I'm going to tell you a brief bit about us and our problem. We are long-term missionaries, on the field for 8-10 yrs (my husband went out before we were married). We are with a missions agency. But we are also supported financially by two mega-churches. (this could be a whole other issue… seeing as these churches are in a sort of unspoken competition with one another. That being said, we keep pretty quiet with one of them, as they are super sensitive to the fact that the other church supports us as well. This could be the root of the problem, but no one will admit it..
    As the years have gone by, we have been put under incredible pressure by both mega churches to perform, to participate in captivating their audience. We have incredible expectations placed upon us, with little to no communication or pastoral care on their part. The fact is, one of the pastors we have only met one time. When the church held a reception for us when we were in the US visiting supporters (we do short furloughs, like 6 weeks every 2 years), the pastor strolled in, introduced himself and said, "wow, what a turn out, or maybe they just came for the free food". He laughed to himself and walked away. That was the most offensive thing the pastor could have said to us. This is the church that "raised me up and sent me out" 8 years ago. This is not the same pastor as before. Anyhow, I've gotten a little off topic. The issues we are facing is how to deal with these mega-churches and their expectations/pressure on us as missionaries to develop bigger and better programs on the field. They want numbers, flashy lights, and all sorts of things. We don't agree with this, nor do we feel it is Biblical. But they are threatening to cut our support (which is nearly 35% at each church). Both feel they control us, but do nothing to help us (except for send money). I am at my wits-end, wanting to tell them we don't want or need their money. Many times I am discouraged and completely disillusioned and ready to go leave the "missionary" status (Have you heard of Business as Mission? That's where we are headed). I am saddened about the way mega-churches have sold Christianity into something based on supply and demand. They told us that they only want to support missionaries that have a compelling vision with big, far-reaching programs. We are beyond convicted that we are doing what God wants us to. We know we don't have to worry about financial support. We have never gone without food on our table. ever. God always provides. We are, however, worried about where these relationships with mega-churches are headed. If we continue to receive their support, it means we approve with how they do church. and we are not. So we are at a crossroads…. your thoughts are appreciated.
    My recent post an update after a few months

    02/21/12 7:30 PM | Comment Link

  • jrrozko said...

    16

    Thanks for your post Tracie. Always good to see that people are coming across and engaging with "older" posts that pertain to their situations.

    First let me just say how much I personally appreciate your labors, perspective, transparency, and willingness to wrestle. There are plenty of people who would just assume take money/support however they can get it and could give a rip about the perspective of those who are giving. Perhaps there is a time and a place for this, but I certainly appreciate people who are a bit more principled than that.

    It really is a tough issue, not easily understood or resolved. At the end of the day, my encouragement would be for you to simply ask God for, on the one hand, opportunities to speak prophetically (that is, with both authority and humility) into the contexts that support you, and on the other hand, wisdom and discernment about how your values dictate who you are willing to accept support from.

    While I hope and pray for better, my experience compels me to warn you to be prepared for either (or both!) of these churches to quit supporting you if they simply aren't able to drop their hegemonic and inculturated posture toward the work God has called you to. In that unfortunate event, I pray that God raises up a new fold of supporters that are 10-fold more capable of being the people that you need standing behind you.

    My wife is the Director of Mobilzation for International Teams and they do a good bit with Business as Mission. If I can be of any support whatsoever, please don't hesitate to be in touch! Peace.

    02/24/12 3:01 PM | Comment Link

  • Tracie said...

    17

    JR, thank you for your thoughtful response and encouragement. We will continue to seek God's wisdom in dealing with these entities and ask for those very opportunities to speak truth in love, knowing that God knows already what their responses will be.

    And yes, I will be in touch with you and/or your wife to glean some information about BM. My first question would be related to making "the switch" from support-based funding to business (or how to make the balance in the beginning, which would eventually lean toward business, needing less and less external donations) and how the missions agencies play a role in that. Maybe she has some resources with info that she could recommend? Thank you!
    My recent post February update

    02/28/12 5:34 PM | Comment Link

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