lifeasmission
exploring the mystery of life and mission as one and the same
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Dr. Rozko?
I have a decision to make. Several months ago I wrote a post about Fuller pulling together a DMiss cohort around the topic of Anabaptist Perspectives in Missional Ecclesiology. I applied to this program and it is scheduled to begin this November.
In the meantime, I accepted a job here in the Chicagoland area at Northern Seminary which is pulling together its own DMin cohort around the topic of missional leadership.
Of course each program comes with its own features and benefits. Both programs are cohort-based and non-residential, but let me lay out some of the distinctives of each program and see what sort of thoughts and advice you might have to offer.
The DMiss…
The DMiss, like a PhD, is a research driven program. The program moves from theological/missiological considerations to issues of context and culture, and finally, to leadership and change dynamics. The final year is given to integration, assessment, and dissertation writing. The cohort will be led, primarily, by Wilbert Shenk and James Krabill.
The DMin…
The DMin is a course driven program, the topics such as, “The Church in Post-Christendom, The Gospel and Culture, Missional Theology, and Misional Leadership.” The program culminates in the writing of a thesis. David Fitch is leading the cohort while Al Roxburgh and Craig Van Gelder will be involved as well.
I think very highly of both of these schools and their programs. I think both programs will do immeasurable good in equipping men and women for service in and to missional churches, but I go back and forth on which one is the best for me, at this time, given the larger scope of all that God is doing in my life.
What sort of questions would you be asking if you were me? What aspects of doctoral level education do you believe are most important and relevant?
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Josh said...
1The biggest complaint I've heard from people who have pursued advanced degrees of any sort, but especially theological/ministry related degrees is that they become isolated in the academic world and lose perspective on the "real world". Which degree program allows you to stay most closely attached to the real world?
08/30/10 4:16 PM | Comment Link
@chrisbjames said...
2Dr. Rozko – has a nice ring to it.
This almost-PhD student just suggests you weigh things like family, friends, geography and finances seriously. Chemistry with the ideas and personalities of the professors is another one to weigh.
Of course, the first question is "What do you want to do doctoral work for?"
My recent post How and Why Spiritual Disciplines Work
08/30/10 4:22 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
3Good question. One of my criteria for considering doctoral work was this very things. Both have programs are practitioner-oriented, meaning they are aimed at equipping people who are serving in some capacity as opposed to those who mean to simply teach full-time. The DMiss would entail taking theoretical research and applying it to a given context and then analyzing the results while the DMin would join academic reflection with ministry experience.
08/30/10 4:54 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
4Thanks Chris. I am doing my best to weigh those things. When I try to answer your question, it typically comes out something like, "I want to be better equipped to reflect on and practically engage how the local church cultivates leaders and multiplies churches." That has been my beginning point and I think both of these programs are attempting to get at those things.
08/30/10 4:57 PM | Comment Link
Dustin said...
5Hey JR. Just saw the post on Facebook. Anyhow…Although I'm personally inclined to stick with the opportunity at Northern because of the possibility of serving and learning alongside people like Fitch and Holsclaw @ LOV, but you have the history with Fuller.
08/30/10 5:47 PM | Comment Link
John Chandler said...
6JR,
Do both…they both look great.
ON a more serious level…what do you hope to be doing in 5-10 years, and how will each help you get there?
08/30/10 8:24 PM | Comment Link
Brad Brisco said...
7I finished up a DMin last year, and along with the questions surrounding the differences in schools/instructors/degree emphasis and the like, I would ask what impact each program would have on family. How far is the travel? How much time away? How long will it take to complete each degree? What are the financial considerations?
Both sound amazing, but I would lean towards the DMin because I think Van Gelder is THE man!
08/30/10 11:07 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
8Yeah, I'm curious to see if anyone mentions the pros or cons of having 2 degrees from the same school.
08/30/10 11:17 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
9I threatened Amy with that – doing both – not sure that's gonna fly.
Thanks for those other questions.
08/30/10 11:19 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
10Yeah, the originality piece is a definite draw, thanks.
08/30/10 11:20 PM | Comment Link
JR Woodward said...
11JR,
As someone seeking to do post grad work next year, I can understand the tension in this decision. It seems to me that you have excellent people to learn from in both degrees. You obviously have a working relationship with Fitch and will undoubtedly keep that going regardless.
Based on my knowledge of you, it seems to me that the DMiss fits you a bit better, since is is more research oriented. The DMin seems to be primarily about applying existing knowledge to ministry situations, while the DMiss uses research to gain insight in order address ministry problems or opportunities. I love the anabaptist slant of the DMiss and think that the connections you might gain through Shenk and Krabill would be invaluable.
With that being said, the deeper connections with Fitch, Van Gelder and Roxborough would be great as well. To be honest, while I lean toward the DMiss for the reasons stated, both are great options.
My recent post A Missional Ecclesiology In Brief – Part IV
08/31/10 1:22 AM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
12Thanks for the input friend.
08/31/10 8:55 AM | Comment Link
Ben Sternke said...
13The only new piece of input I'd add is that the D.Miss may fit you better because its research-driven, "PhD-like" direction seems better suited to your gifts and passions.
The D.Min sounds great for pastors/leaders who want to gain skills and insight for ministry, etc., but you're also talking about reforming seminary education, etc. so it seems to me that the research process would be a great benefit to that quest, and honestly having a D.Miss may give you more "clout" in the Christian education community than a D.Min, and you might need that if you're going to be talking about dismantling sacred cows.
08/31/10 9:49 AM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
14That's still helpful, thanks.
08/31/10 9:57 AM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
15Good thoughts, thanks Ben.
08/31/10 9:57 AM | Comment Link
Gary said...
16JR,
This may be a dumb question, but if you went with Fuller would you be moving to LA? Or for that matter, flying out there on a regular basis? I think I've known you for 3 years and you've lived in 3 different places. Would there be some benefit in sitting still for a few years? It seems like you've got a good community in Chicago. If you moved to LA, would that be the case?
Even as you dig in to the library, what would allow you to be most engaged in the community around you?
Just a thought,
- Gary
08/31/10 2:47 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
17Dude, did you just go Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove on me?!
Love it.
Chicago is home for as long as God will have us here. The Fuller program would be based around field-based research that I would do in the local church context and possibly through Ecclesia as a network. I would meet with the cohort for 2 weeks each year in Pasadena, and possible other locations.
One of the reasons I am considering these programs and not a PhD is that they aren't predicated me in setting up camp in a library – they seek to wed advanced theological and missiological reflection with leadership praxis.
Thanks for the thoughts Gary.
08/31/10 3:12 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
18Yeah, weighing all that stuff and I agree about Van Gelder. I've been doing some work with Northern regarding missional implications for theological education which is one of his areas of expertise, so that's definitely on my radar.
What DMin did you do? What are your reflections on how doing the degree related to your personal spiritual formation? Was this something you went into it thinking about?
08/31/10 6:15 PM | Comment Link
Rob said...
19JR – Don't know if you remember me, but you interviewed in Spokane with us a few years ago.
To your question: It does all depends on what you want to do with the degree? Which leads me to another question: Why not a PhD? If academia is in your thoughts at all – that is the union card. I have a DMin and teach at Whitworth as an adjunct, but probably wouldn't get considered for a tenured job – that is, unless I wrote "the next book!" I hope that helps a bit. Peace friend!
My recent post Commissioning Service for Church Planting at New Community
08/31/10 10:38 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
20Rob, how serendipitous. Of course I remember you. More than that, my wife and I were in Pasadena last week with our friend Jenelle D'Alessandro and your name came up as a common connection. Further still, my wife is the Director of Mobilization for International Teams based here in Elgin and just yesterday I emailed Scott Olson, the President of IT and a friend, and asked whether or not he knew you. I think International Teams and CA have a lot in common and that you might do well to connect at some point. Had no idea that you checked on on my blog though, thanks for that.
I may think about a PhD down the road, but for now my primary interestes lie in the practical implications of theology and missiology as they relate to the shaping of a missional ecclesiology. Outside of this, I have some idealogical reservations about the expectation of PhD's being the "union card" in theological education. Practically, I made a personal commitment not to do another degree unless it was paid for or extremely affordable, accessible (no relocating), and geared toward the spiritual formation of the student. If you're aware of and PhD's like that, I'm all ears.
I do appreciate your thoughts, thanks. And I'm really excited about what you're bringing to CA. You have to let me know when you're in Chicago – and don't be afraid to find an excuse to make it out. Peace.
08/31/10 11:19 PM | Comment Link
Nick G. said...
21Most importantly, in my opinion, aside from hearing the “audible voice of God”, what is Amy’s insight? Does she have a “gut” sense about it? JR, you have something now that you didn’t before in a wife. I hope it doesn’t take you as long as it took me to truly value that, especially in decision-making situations like this. It may turn out that it is not a “logical” answer (although, I’m not suggesting you don’t weigh it out and think it through).
09/1/10 10:53 AM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
22Oh don't you worry about that, she's the primary consultant on everything. Her insight blows my mind! Appreciate the reminder though – good to hear from you man.
09/1/10 11:14 AM | Comment Link
matttebbe said...
23JR –
Do whatever will mess with Fitch the most. The will of God usually leads down the path of "giving Fitch fits."
miss you friend,
tebbe.
09/2/10 9:52 AM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
24Amen. Thanks.
09/2/10 11:25 AM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
25I like you're thinking.
09/2/10 5:57 PM | Comment Link
Rob said...
26It's great to catch up with you. Jenelle is one my favorite people in CA. We should talk sometime about what I'm doing now.
By the way, the D.Miss. degree looks really exciting. For someone like myself, who has anabaptistic leanings, the focus of that particular cohort is attractive.
Peace to you!
My recent post The Essence of Missional
09/3/10 12:16 AM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
27Thanks Wess.
09/9/10 1:41 PM | Comment Link
DMin in Missional Leadership at Northern Seminary | lifeasmission said...
28[...] mentioned before the DMin in Missional Leadership cohort that is being convened at Northern Seminary here in [...]
10/1/10 7:21 AM | Comment Link
Dan Steigerwald said...
29PhD now, DMIN you can do later if it's additive (to you and to the Kingdom). The former opens more potential doors, esp for voice in reforming the academy. My guess is you won't quit being a practitioner regardless of degree choice.
03/16/12 7:40 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
30Hey Dan. Not sure if you noticed, but this post was from a while back (once a day some random post from the past gets posted to twitter just to recycle some content – a stick it-to the, the-only-thing-that-matters-is-the-present, man on my part). I did decide on the DMiss and am really, really happy that I did. Into year two now and the combination of academic and field research is a perfect fit for someone like me who sees missiology as central to overcoming the ridiculous divide which has emerged between church and academy, theory and practice. Whether not a DMiss opens up more doors (excuse me while my Enneagram shows up here
remains quite irrelevant to me. Frankly, the notion that what centers of theological education really need are more PhD's is antiquated if not debilitating for the mission of the Church and IMHO, we need more people willing to take it on the chin by refusing to capitulate to the expectations of the status quo. No doubt I will get passed over for teaching opportunities because I don't have the right letters in front of my name, but chances are that I wouldn't be really happy in such stagnated institutions.
03/19/12 9:13 AM | Comment Link