lifeasmission
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God is as God Acts
I once heard a story of a man who was speaking with Dallas Willard. In the course of conversation, the man divulged a sin, but commented that it was, “completely out of character” for him. To which Dallas replied, “No it wasn’t. If you did it, that IS your character.”
I listened to that and thought to myself,
This expresses well why I love God so much. Because God is as God acts.
God doesn’t get to be called “loving” if God doesn’t love. Nor does God get to be named “just” if God doesn’t act justly. We are as we act and God is as God acts.
Instead of taking this in my own personal direction, I was wondering how others might respond to the idea that “God IS as God ACTS.” What are your thoughts? What does it mean for how you live your life and interpret your reality?
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JoshGarrington said...
1We were just talking about this at our Sunday night small group Bible study a couple weeks ago. We're doing 1 John where there is a large emphasis on "God is Love". For me that is both an encouragement and a challenge. An encouragement because I know that God is what he says he is and I can have absolute confidence in that. A challenge, because I represent Christ to the non-believers around me and the characteristics I portray are going to be attributed to Him, good or bad. That leaves me the challenge of allowing God to show His true self through me, not wresting control and allowing my sinful nature to be an incorrect representation of Him.
03/4/10 10:40 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
2So my question would be, do we \”know what God is because he says he is,\” or do we know what God is because of what God does? Or, perhaps more to the point, what kind of knowing is more befitting Christian witness & discipleship?
I'd say that the kind of confidence we ought to aspire to comes from a kind of knowing that is personal, relational, and experiential as opposed to merely propositional.
As for our responsibility, totally with you on that. Too often we pass the buck with some sort of, \”Christians are't perfect just forgiven\” sort of malarkey and fail to embrace the real challenge held out to us of actually knowing God in authentically transformative ways so that we can courageously say, \”Want to know Jesus, follow me.\”
03/4/10 11:10 PM | Comment Link
JoshGarrington said...
3I agree with you. There is a definate, necessary, experiencial aspect of knowing what God is. That's not a freestanding requirement though. We don't know what God is just because we think we have experienced Him. That opens us up to a lot of New Age theology. Instead, we know what God is because we have experienced Him in a way that is confirmed primarily by the Bible but also to a lesser extend by Church tradition and by seeing God show through other Christians.
03/4/10 11:58 PM | Comment Link
Tim Morris said...
4JR, interesting post…refreshing actually, that there is no schizophrenia in God. I need to hear this! This also seems to be a way to serve as a bridge to show people who God is by turning their eyes to what He has done in their communities and in their lives. Maybe sort of an incarnational stepping stone to allow people to see that God is here and alive in the world and that "petty" happenings are not petty at all.
03/5/10 5:59 AM | Comment Link
Ben Sternke said...
5Another way to say it is that God is simple. "There is no shadow of turning with Thee," as the old hymn-writer said. He is not exactly predictable, but He is amazingly consistent.
And I think ultimately this is the ONLY way we really know God, through the actions of God. It's one of the main tenets of Christianity, that God ACTS in history. He does stuff, and through the stuff we see Him do, we understand what he's like, his character, the kinds of things he likes to do.
We don't know he's faithful "because He said so," but because we see him stick with the Israelites in the desert despite their apostasy, and we see him stick with us, forgiving, blessing, commanding, even in our wavering faithfulness. We know WHO he is because of WHAT he does. He's the God who hears the cries of his people and ANSWERS, does something about it.
I could go on
Thanks for prompting this, JR. I agree: God IS as God DOES, and we KNOW who God IS by WHAT he does.
03/5/10 2:34 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
6Tangent coming…
OK, so tell me, father of 4… Am I going to be able to stick to the commitment I made with myself that if and when I have kids I will never respond to their questions with, "Because I said so?" Or am I dreaming?
03/5/10 2:57 PM | Comment Link
Ben Sternke said...
7You'll say it. Often. And I think God does this, too, but it has to do with commands, not character. I don't tell my kids, "I am benevolent and loving, because I said so." I pray they can experience that I am benevolent and loving through my actions. But sometimes I will say "No more candy, because I said so." My kids aren't wise enough to make their own decisions when it comes to candy.
And when I do need to resort to "because I said so" I pray they'll remember that I have their best interests at heart, which they will know because of my actions toward them in the past.
03/5/10 3:33 PM | Comment Link
JoshGarrington said...
8Amen to that!
I'm only a father of two (with the oldest just barely 3), but you just articulated very clearly something I am currently learning.
To tangent off of this a little more. We can also know God deeper once we are placed in the earthly equivalent roles that God uses to describe himself. For example, while my technical understanding of the passages of the Bible that refer to God as our father hasn't changed; my innate, deep down, comprehension of the full impact of those statements has increased exponentially since becoming a father myself.
03/5/10 6:23 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
9Yeah, I wasn't meaning to draw that comparison – it was just a tangent off of that phrase.
I'm hoping that I'll have the patience to offer explanations to my commands, even if they aren't fully understood, rather than using "Because I said so!" as a power play. Even if they don't get it, I'd like my kids to grow up getting accustomed to the experience of hearing that there is rationale behind what mom and dad say.
03/5/10 6:34 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
10Yeah, I wasn't meaning to draw that comparison – it was just a tangent off of that phrase.
I'm hoping that I'll have the patience to offer explanations to my commands, even if they aren't fully understood, rather than using "Because I said so!" as a power play. Even if they don't get it, I'd like my kids to grow up getting accustomed to the experience of hearing that there is rationale behind what mom and dad say.
03/5/10 6:34 PM | Comment Link
JoshGarrington said...
11"the Bible isn't some abstract piece of literature that descended from on high"
I think I know what you're getting at, but just to confirm, that statement could be read as arguing AGAINST inspiration. I'm assuming you do believe the Bible is divinely inspired and you are just trying to get the point accross that the divinely inspired content was put on the page through the context of a human author. Is that correct?
03/5/10 6:36 PM | Comment Link
JoshGarrington said...
12I see your point equating testing something against scripture and and against Church tradition. I'd even be willing to stipulate that Scripture is a part of Church tradition, so confirmation through scripture is confirmation from Church tradition. Where it get's sticky is that there is a lot of Church tradition that is derived from scripture but not inspired. That is a valuable resource but it does not hold the same weight as scripture. Therefore scripture should be our primary source of authority (i.e. Sola Scriptura), with the remainer of Church tradition a secondary source of confirmation.
I would argue that statements about God taken directly from scripture are non-negotiable (assuming they are translated and interpreted correctly), i.e. "God is Love". Statements about God taken from the Church councils, Church Fathers, Reformers, etc. are valuable but at the vary least open to discussion. That's all I was trying to get at.
03/5/10 6:37 PM | Comment Link
Ben Sternke said...
13Yes, definitely. We try to explain everything we can.
03/5/10 6:39 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
14Yup. Any theory of inspiration that circumvents the reality of God's partnership with actual people in their context and cultural situation loses touch with the larger biblical vision of God's incarnational character and commitment I think.
03/5/10 6:50 PM | Comment Link
JoshGarrington said...
15Couldn't agree more.
03/5/10 6:56 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
16Ah, and there's the key – just who gets to decide what counts for Scripture being, "translated and interpreted correctly?" Any Christian worth his or her salt is going to want to play the trump card of, "the Bible says so," because you are citing an "inspired" text.
The idea reading Scripture objectively is a myth. We are each influenced and shaped by more factors than we can name when we approach the Scriptures – age, background, education, cultural diversity, race, and an ever-growing bank of life experiences just to name a few. In the end, Scripture is only accesible to us by way of interpretation. But, in my opinion, inasmuch as we worship a Triune God, a God who expresses unity in the context of difference, this is perfectly befitting the nature of Christian faith.
03/5/10 7:00 PM | Comment Link
JoshGarrington said...
17I'd agree with every word of that, which is precisely why I would include the remainder of Church Tradition as a secondary confirmation. If I interpret the "spare the rod, spoil the child" to be support for abusing my children, I could look back on 2000 years of fellow believers and probably find a dozen well respected ones that agreed with me, but I would find 10 times that many who disagreed. That should cause me to question my interpretation.
03/5/10 7:24 PM | Comment Link
JoshGarrington said...
18Christianity is practiced in community. We experience God in community and we share and interpret his word in community. Some of that community is physically present around us, some of it is the tradition left to us by the saints that went before us.
To an Eastern, Roman Catholic (or even Anglican and Lutheran to a lesser extent) Christian this is a no-brainer statement.
Western Evangelicals have tended to take the Reformation principals past their logical conclusion and made Christianity primarily a faith of the individual experience. While that's true, it's only a small portion of what our faith can and should be. So when people start to emphasize the personal/now experience of the faith to me, I tend to push back and try to emphasize the corporate/timeless experience of the faith…but I've also been reading too much Church History and Liturgy.
03/5/10 7:25 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
19Hmmm. Se Ben's comment below.
I get your point and am not advocating for some ability to make God out to be who or whatever we want God to be based on our own interpretations of God and reality. At the same time, the Bible isn't some abstract piece of literature that descended from on high. It is the written testimony of "the Church" as they have interpreted God's actions in the world and through them as God's people.
When we test something against Scripture we are, in point of fact, seeking confirmation of our experience through Church tradition right?
03/5/10 2:52 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
20Totally agree. The Spirit of God is present and active in the world and one of the main opportunities we have as the people of God is to help others see God in what they already know and experience. This is HUGE, especially when dealing with people who have been wounded and misled by an errant version of Christian faith.
03/5/10 2:55 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
21Very much with you on this Josh. So much so that I probably take for granted that our individual experiences and interpretations are w/o meaning when not submitted to the discernment of a Christian community seeking to live lives faithful to the testimony of Scripture.
03/5/10 9:09 PM | Comment Link
JoshGarrington said...
22Thanks for the discussion. It's kept my brain cranking on a fairly dull friday.
03/5/10 9:20 PM | Comment Link
Tim Morris said...
23The book "Parenting with Love and Logic" seems to offer this rationale in a really powerful way. Similar to what Ben is saying above, parents can request of their children that they simply trust them, because they have demonstrated to their children that they trust them. Oddly enough, I have heard this book referred to as one of the best books on leadership…spiritual parents. I wonder what the implications of that is with our relationship with God, considering God may give us a clear explanation of why He may ask us to do something, give us free reign to choose and how at other "random" times He may say "trust me"…"blindly"…of course it isn't really blind, because God's character has been proven to us. There is probably something really exhilarating for parents and God when children will trust, based on character.
03/6/10 1:48 AM | Comment Link
Amy said...
24Exactly why I love God so much. Because He DOES act. For you. For me. For all of us. Lovely blog. Just found it today. Thank you for this post. Blessings!
03/6/10 1:53 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
25Thanks Amy, happy to have you reading and commenting!
03/6/10 3:26 PM | Comment Link
Michael Rudzena said...
26hmmm, invitation to continue the tangent. i think Ben ought to start a series of posts on power dynamics and raising children. This is one of the issues I still have confusion about. It seems that discipline, the enforcing of consequences for poor choices, etc.. can get easily manipulative and coercive.
we always will tell "why" after they "do" what we tell them to do, but it seems dangerous for them if they ask "why" before they "do" it especially when you start thinking of scenarios where instant obedience is required for their good (i.e. running into the street, placing a hand near the stove, etc..).
any good resources on this, esp. from a tradition like the mennonites who have tons of mature reflection on power dynamics?
03/7/10 10:11 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
27Michael – just asked 2 friends who live in the Quaker & Mennonite worlds respectively to take a look at your comment and weigh in if they have any thoughts or resources to offer.
03/7/10 11:29 PM | Comment Link
chris said...
28Thanks for the invite, JR. I'd have to look into some resources from Mennonite tradition (I'm still a bit of a newbie-not a cradle Mennonite). Michael's question regarding power dynamics & raising children is an interesting one; one which my wife and I will continue to work through as we ourselves are new parents.
03/10/10 3:05 AM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
29Cool. Thanks for thinking about it Chris.
03/10/10 4:45 AM | Comment Link
mrudzena said...
30thanks chris!
03/11/10 3:41 PM | Comment Link