Comments on: Toward a Missional Vision of Theological Education: The Fruit of the Problem http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/toward-a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-the-fruit-of-the-problem/ exploring the mystery of life and mission as one and the same Thu, 11 Mar 2010 00:17:35 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: jrrozko http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/toward-a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-the-fruit-of-the-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-5995 jrrozko Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:12:29 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1371#comment-5995 Absolutely. This is gonna be a huge part of the sort of proposal I want to put forth, thanks man. Absolutely. This is gonna be a huge part of the sort of proposal I want to put forth, thanks man.

]]> By: Ben Sternke http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/toward-a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-the-fruit-of-the-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-5992 Ben Sternke Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:10:06 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1371#comment-5992 You hit on this a bit in your "Reductionism" section, but I think that any system of theological education that allows for people to "graduate" without ever growing in character, without ever being expected to cultivate the fruit of the Spirit in their lives, is broken. Our community just finished a few months of focusing on the Sermon on the Mount, and Jesus points to fruit (character, obedience to Jesus) as THE thing to look for in those who lead us or offer us advice on living. Somehow we've separated the concept of "theological education" from the simple cultivation of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, which Jesus and the NT seem to put at the very center of what it means to know God. You hit on this a bit in your "Reductionism" section, but I think that any system of theological education that allows for people to "graduate" without ever growing in character, without ever being expected to cultivate the fruit of the Spirit in their lives, is broken.

Our community just finished a few months of focusing on the Sermon on the Mount, and Jesus points to fruit (character, obedience to Jesus) as THE thing to look for in those who lead us or offer us advice on living.

Somehow we've separated the concept of "theological education" from the simple cultivation of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, which Jesus and the NT seem to put at the very center of what it means to know God.

]]> By: JR Rozko http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/toward-a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-the-fruit-of-the-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-5953 JR Rozko Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:08:58 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1371#comment-5953 Thanks Jase. Hope to have another post up by mid-next week if not sooner. After spending a few posts on identification an deconstruction, I am really anxious to move into a more constructive line of thought. i hope to do justice to the work I believe needs to be done on 2 fronts - 1) correcting from within (ie. building bridges) and 2) cultivating an alternative reality. Thanks Jase. Hope to have another post up by mid-next week if not sooner. After spending a few posts on identification an deconstruction, I am really anxious to move into a more constructive line of thought. i hope to do justice to the work I believe needs to be done on 2 fronts – 1) correcting from within (ie. building bridges) and 2) cultivating an alternative reality.

]]> By: Jase Miller http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/toward-a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-the-fruit-of-the-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-5950 Jase Miller Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:25:54 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1371#comment-5950 JR, you have some good insights here. I am eager to read your next post on these themes, particularly if you have some suggestions for where change might be needed. Having worked for a decade in both the seminary and church contexts, I have had opportunity to get to know people throughout all levels of the 'tree' (to continue your metaphor) who are aware of a struggle that underlies church and seminary culture. Quite a few of them are deeply concerned about how to follow Christ and serve the church in theological education. One of my roles is to attempt to bridge those two cultures. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts. JR, you have some good insights here. I am eager to read your next post on these themes, particularly if you have some suggestions for where change might be needed. Having worked for a decade in both the seminary and church contexts, I have had opportunity to get to know people throughout all levels of the 'tree' (to continue your metaphor) who are aware of a struggle that underlies church and seminary culture. Quite a few of them are deeply concerned about how to follow Christ and serve the church in theological education. One of my roles is to attempt to bridge those two cultures. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts.

]]> By: jrrozko http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/toward-a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-the-fruit-of-the-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-5938 jrrozko Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:48:39 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1371#comment-5938 The professionalism piece is HUGE. I had written some stuff on that, but was trying to keep the length of the post down - thanks for adding it in! The professionalism piece is HUGE. I had written some stuff on that, but was trying to keep the length of the post down – thanks for adding it in!

]]> By: Jason Coker http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/toward-a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-the-fruit-of-the-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-5931 Jason Coker Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:13:19 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1371#comment-5931 Again, nice. I would add... Professionalism: The current system is designed to cultivate white-collar (no pun intended) professionals for an institution that assumes a place at the center of "main street" American culture. Now that Christianity is being pushed to the outskirts of town, there are fewer and fewer seats at the table for professional clergy. And that's the just pragmatic problem with being a seminary trained leader. The theological consequence, of course, is the deeply embedded split between clergy and laity, which when cultivated inside a contemporary church-growth hothouse leads directly to the sprouting of a passive spectator/consumer form of worship. The seminary paradigm shares significant responsibility for this state of affairs. Also, related to your point about "reductionism," I would add that Western pedagogy in the social sciences or humanities (including theology and religion) assumes an almost entirely abstract orientation. Consequently, the overemphasis on abstract theological concepts has lead directly to a practice of Christianity at the popular level that is largely devoid of genuine praxis and often tastes of a rather strong intellectual elitism. Case in point: in the new Reformed churches, being a good Christian revolves almost entirely around the idea of retaining an insanely broad mastery of doctrinal minutia. Not only does this bear little resemblance to the community Jesus formed, but it automatically excludes a massive number of people who, for a variety of reasons, simply aren't oriented toward abstract thinking. Again, nice. I would add…

Professionalism:
The current system is designed to cultivate white-collar (no pun intended) professionals for an institution that assumes a place at the center of "main street" American culture. Now that Christianity is being pushed to the outskirts of town, there are fewer and fewer seats at the table for professional clergy.

And that's the just pragmatic problem with being a seminary trained leader. The theological consequence, of course, is the deeply embedded split between clergy and laity, which when cultivated inside a contemporary church-growth hothouse leads directly to the sprouting of a passive spectator/consumer form of worship. The seminary paradigm shares significant responsibility for this state of affairs.

Also, related to your point about "reductionism," I would add that Western pedagogy in the social sciences or humanities (including theology and religion) assumes an almost entirely abstract orientation. Consequently, the overemphasis on abstract theological concepts has lead directly to a practice of Christianity at the popular level that is largely devoid of genuine praxis and often tastes of a rather strong intellectual elitism. Case in point: in the new Reformed churches, being a good Christian revolves almost entirely around the idea of retaining an insanely broad mastery of doctrinal minutia. Not only does this bear little resemblance to the community Jesus formed, but it automatically excludes a massive number of people who, for a variety of reasons, simply aren't oriented toward abstract thinking.

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