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	<title>Comments on: Toward A Missional Vision of Theological Education: Preliminary Thoughts</title>
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	<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/</link>
	<description>exploring the mystery of life and mission as one and the same</description>
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		<title>By: Doug Paul</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-7996</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2011 23:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1362#comment-7996</guid>
		<description>Excited to see where you take this series. Bring the fire and the thunder! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excited to see where you take this series. Bring the fire and the thunder! </p>
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		<title>By: Josh Garrington</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-5924</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Garrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1362#comment-5924</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I said on my Facebook status the other day that I was &quot;decanting&quot; something and my wife made fun of me all day. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I said on my Facebook status the other day that I was &quot;decanting&quot; something and my wife made fun of me all day. </p>
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		<title>By: jrrozko</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-5923</link>
		<dc:creator>jrrozko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1362#comment-5923</guid>
		<description>I love your comment simply because you used the word vehemently!   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love your comment simply because you used the word vehemently!   </p>
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		<title>By: Josh Garrington</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-5922</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Garrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1362#comment-5922</guid>
		<description>I agree, sort of. 
 
Saying our beliefs are intellectually provable would be an overstatement, but they are intellectually supportable.  In fact, I&#039;m convinced that if you put forth intellectual arguments for every world view, the Christian defense would be the MOST compelling argument.  This is a tremendously important point for me (could be my Engineer&#039;s brain and training showing through). 
If I went as far as to say that the only defense of our faith required is intellectual though, I&#039;d be neglecting all the other important and accurate points you are making. 
 
Personally, increasing intellectual understanding of the faith has been critical to my overall spiritual growth. 
 
3 years ago I would have called anyone who believed in predestination a wack job.  2 years ago I would have thought of anyone who believed in a rapture as a nutter.  Simply because these views didn&#039;t agree with mine. 
Now, after study (naturally coupled with action and prayer), I can appreciate their contribution to the Kingdom and view them first and formost as fellow soldiers for God.  Even if I still vehemently disagree with them. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, sort of. </p>
<p>Saying our beliefs are intellectually provable would be an overstatement, but they are intellectually supportable.  In fact, I&#039;m convinced that if you put forth intellectual arguments for every world view, the Christian defense would be the MOST compelling argument.  This is a tremendously important point for me (could be my Engineer&#039;s brain and training showing through).<br />
If I went as far as to say that the only defense of our faith required is intellectual though, I&#039;d be neglecting all the other important and accurate points you are making. </p>
<p>Personally, increasing intellectual understanding of the faith has been critical to my overall spiritual growth. </p>
<p>3 years ago I would have called anyone who believed in predestination a wack job.  2 years ago I would have thought of anyone who believed in a rapture as a nutter.  Simply because these views didn&#039;t agree with mine.<br />
Now, after study (naturally coupled with action and prayer), I can appreciate their contribution to the Kingdom and view them first and formost as fellow soldiers for God.  Even if I still vehemently disagree with them. </p>
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		<title>By: jrrozko</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-5915</link>
		<dc:creator>jrrozko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 02:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1362#comment-5915</guid>
		<description>Right.  But what I meant in my reply to Ben is that it&#039;s not so much a need for balance, but a new vision of leadership altogether that doesn&#039;t lend itself to such errors. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right.  But what I meant in my reply to Ben is that it&#039;s not so much a need for balance, but a new vision of leadership altogether that doesn&#039;t lend itself to such errors. </p>
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		<title>By: jrrozko</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-5914</link>
		<dc:creator>jrrozko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 02:40:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1362#comment-5914</guid>
		<description>Hmmm.  &quot;Does every Christian need to be able to offer up a basic apologetic of their core beliefs?&quot;  I am with you on the answer, yes, but there remains the problem of the nature of that apologetic.  I am of the mind that intellectual defenses are not the sort of &quot;defense&quot; that the Bible would have us make when our faith is questioned, since, in the end, our beliefs are a matter of faith and not intellectually provable (or perhaps even compelling!).  For followers of Jesus personally and the Church corporately, our apologetic is always finally the lives we lead maked by faith and hope in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.  This was Jesus&#039; &quot;apologetic&quot; and Paul spent the entirely of his post-conversion life trying to get these new followers-of-the-Way communities on that page as well.   
 
Of course I don&#039;t really know what your experience has been, but I think what you are describing, in terms of the over-correction is actually just the other end of the same modern spectrum.  Anything that&#039;s truly Christianly post-modern will be marked by a third way, a truly alternative paradigm that is unintelligible to those locked in a modern one.   
 
This is the classic mistake that many people make when it comes to trying to understand the Emerging Church.  Since they see the Christian world in terms of conservative-liberal poles, it has to be one or the other, but the best expressions of emerging churches transcend that dichotomy because their starting point and assumptions are of a different sort altogether.   
 
So, to try and encapsulate all that, the battle for me isn&#039;t about a balancing act between intellectual knowledge and emotional/fellowship dimensions of faith, it&#039;s a fundamental transfiguration of how we understand the very nature of discipleship such that these categories just don&#039;t work any more. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm.  &quot;Does every Christian need to be able to offer up a basic apologetic of their core beliefs?&quot;  I am with you on the answer, yes, but there remains the problem of the nature of that apologetic.  I am of the mind that intellectual defenses are not the sort of &quot;defense&quot; that the Bible would have us make when our faith is questioned, since, in the end, our beliefs are a matter of faith and not intellectually provable (or perhaps even compelling!).  For followers of Jesus personally and the Church corporately, our apologetic is always finally the lives we lead maked by faith and hope in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.  This was Jesus&#039; &quot;apologetic&quot; and Paul spent the entirely of his post-conversion life trying to get these new followers-of-the-Way communities on that page as well.   </p>
<p>Of course I don&#039;t really know what your experience has been, but I think what you are describing, in terms of the over-correction is actually just the other end of the same modern spectrum.  Anything that&#039;s truly Christianly post-modern will be marked by a third way, a truly alternative paradigm that is unintelligible to those locked in a modern one.   </p>
<p>This is the classic mistake that many people make when it comes to trying to understand the Emerging Church.  Since they see the Christian world in terms of conservative-liberal poles, it has to be one or the other, but the best expressions of emerging churches transcend that dichotomy because their starting point and assumptions are of a different sort altogether.   </p>
<p>So, to try and encapsulate all that, the battle for me isn&#039;t about a balancing act between intellectual knowledge and emotional/fellowship dimensions of faith, it&#039;s a fundamental transfiguration of how we understand the very nature of discipleship such that these categories just don&#039;t work any more. </p>
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		<title>By: brad/futuristguy</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-5912</link>
		<dc:creator>brad/futuristguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1362#comment-5912</guid>
		<description>Good comments, Ben and JR, and I think a better balance is there when the two are held together. Having been the victim of immature &quot;leadership&quot; of rush-in roulette, that&#039;s simply something that I don&#039;t think I&#039;d want to see reproduced, rapidly or otherwise. Why the rush to create supersonic hydroponic disciples? And yet, I&#039;ve also been frozen to dearth by non-risk-taking &quot;leadership&quot; also. Why the ruse to create supersafe disciples?  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good comments, Ben and JR, and I think a better balance is there when the two are held together. Having been the victim of immature &quot;leadership&quot; of rush-in roulette, that&#039;s simply something that I don&#039;t think I&#039;d want to see reproduced, rapidly or otherwise. Why the rush to create supersonic hydroponic disciples? And yet, I&#039;ve also been frozen to dearth by non-risk-taking &quot;leadership&quot; also. Why the ruse to create supersafe disciples?  </p>
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		<title>By: jrrozko</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-5902</link>
		<dc:creator>jrrozko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 01:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1362#comment-5902</guid>
		<description>I am not sure head knowledge is the ultimate key to reconciling faith and suffering (Job?), the sinfulness of spiritual authority figures (Saul?), or inter-faith apologetics (woman at the well?).  To me, these all seem like relational, not intellectual issues.   
 
It&#039;s probably fair to say that there is a direct correlation between the benefit of knowledge and spiritual maturity.  As I said, I&#039;m no anti-intellectual.  I just want to get them in the right order.  Let&#039;s give our time and attention to overall spiritual growth and development so that higher learning finds its rightful place in subjugation to relational faith in a risen Savior, embodied in a community bent on embodying the good news. 
 
To think that head knowledge is and of itself is efficacious for vibrant Christian faith is kind of like hooking a jet engine up to a prop plane. There just isn&#039;t the right kind of structure to support it and use it beneficially.  Bound to do more harm than good.   
 
Bart lost his faith (if that&#039;s a fair way to say it) not because he got too smart, but because he didn&#039;t have the right spiritual framework to deal with what was getting thrown at him.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure head knowledge is the ultimate key to reconciling faith and suffering (Job?), the sinfulness of spiritual authority figures (Saul?), or inter-faith apologetics (woman at the well?).  To me, these all seem like relational, not intellectual issues.   </p>
<p>It&#39;s probably fair to say that there is a direct correlation between the benefit of knowledge and spiritual maturity.  As I said, I&#39;m no anti-intellectual.  I just want to get them in the right order.  Let&#39;s give our time and attention to overall spiritual growth and development so that higher learning finds its rightful place in subjugation to relational faith in a risen Savior, embodied in a community bent on embodying the good news. </p>
<p>To think that head knowledge is and of itself is efficacious for vibrant Christian faith is kind of like hooking a jet engine up to a prop plane. There just isn&#39;t the right kind of structure to support it and use it beneficially.  Bound to do more harm than good.   </p>
<p>Bart lost his faith (if that&#39;s a fair way to say it) not because he got too smart, but because he didn&#39;t have the right spiritual framework to deal with what was getting thrown at him.   </p>
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		<title>By: Josh Garrington</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-5904</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Garrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1362#comment-5904</guid>
		<description>I pretty much agree with everything you just said. 
 
Yes, head knowledge by itself does not lead to a deeper or more vibrant faith.  Conversely though, without head knowledge that deeper, more vibrant faith cannot be achieved either.  It&#039;s one of multiple critical components required to gain spiritual maturity. 
 
Does every Christian need to know who Tertullian was or the difference between apaphatic and cataphatic theology?  Nope. 
Does every Christian need to be able to offer up a basic apologetic of their core beliefs?  Yes. 
 
My personal experience has been that western (post-modern?) Christianity has over-corrected the modern/rationalistic mindset.  The emphasis has come to rest so far into the emotional and fellowship aspects (which are also important) that intellectual understanding of the faith has regressed to a remedial for the average Christian. 
 
I&#039;m willing to stipulate that intellectual knowledge poses dangers for some people.  Any time on leg of your footing gets too big the whole thing tends toward instability.  Right now though, I think that leg is most often almost missing entirely, which guarantees the footing is unstable. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I pretty much agree with everything you just said. </p>
<p>Yes, head knowledge by itself does not lead to a deeper or more vibrant faith.  Conversely though, without head knowledge that deeper, more vibrant faith cannot be achieved either.  It&#039;s one of multiple critical components required to gain spiritual maturity. </p>
<p>Does every Christian need to know who Tertullian was or the difference between apaphatic and cataphatic theology?  Nope.<br />
Does every Christian need to be able to offer up a basic apologetic of their core beliefs?  Yes. </p>
<p>My personal experience has been that western (post-modern?) Christianity has over-corrected the modern/rationalistic mindset.  The emphasis has come to rest so far into the emotional and fellowship aspects (which are also important) that intellectual understanding of the faith has regressed to a remedial for the average Christian. </p>
<p>I&#039;m willing to stipulate that intellectual knowledge poses dangers for some people.  Any time on leg of your footing gets too big the whole thing tends toward instability.  Right now though, I think that leg is most often almost missing entirely, which guarantees the footing is unstable. </p>
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		<title>By: Josh Garrington</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-5901</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Garrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1362#comment-5901</guid>
		<description>&quot;having increasing amounts of knowledge are often the very things that shatter faith rather than bolster it.&quot; 
 
I disagree.  Or, at least, I think that&#039;s the exception rather than the rule.  I think for every Bert Ehrman who is disillusioned by study, there are 10 average Joes who are disillusioned when they can&#039;t reconsile their incomplete understanding of the faith with their suffering, or lose it when a pastor or similar authority figure stumbles, or just plain can&#039;t contridict arguments from apologists of other faiths or world views. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;having increasing amounts of knowledge are often the very things that shatter faith rather than bolster it.&quot; </p>
<p>I disagree.  Or, at least, I think that&#039;s the exception rather than the rule.  I think for every Bert Ehrman who is disillusioned by study, there are 10 average Joes who are disillusioned when they can&#039;t reconsile their incomplete understanding of the faith with their suffering, or lose it when a pastor or similar authority figure stumbles, or just plain can&#039;t contridict arguments from apologists of other faiths or world views. </p>
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		<title>By: Ben Sternke</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-5894</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Sternke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1362#comment-5894</guid>
		<description>I loved being able to talk briefly about this with you in Virginia a few weeks ago, and I&#039;m excited to see where it goes. 
 
Just a thought about where I&#039;m coming from with this... I have two convictions that seem to fly in the face of each other, but I think theological education has to take both seriously if it&#039;s going to remain vital. 
 
1) Church leadership should be rapidly reproducible so churches can be planted quickly and often. 
 
2) Theological education is EXTREMELY important for church leaders. 
 
I look forward to the discussion! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved being able to talk briefly about this with you in Virginia a few weeks ago, and I&#39;m excited to see where it goes. </p>
<p>Just a thought about where I&#39;m coming from with this&#8230; I have two convictions that seem to fly in the face of each other, but I think theological education has to take both seriously if it&#39;s going to remain vital. </p>
<p>1) Church leadership should be rapidly reproducible so churches can be planted quickly and often. </p>
<p>2) Theological education is EXTREMELY important for church leaders. </p>
<p>I look forward to the discussion! </p>
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		<title>By: jrrozko</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-5899</link>
		<dc:creator>jrrozko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1362#comment-5899</guid>
		<description>Spoiler alert.  Here&#039;s how I will probably come at those 2 things. 
 
1) Yes, this is true, but it necessitates a deep shift in how we understand church leadership.  As it is currently/popularly understood it&#039;s impossible and when we try to make it more rapid w/o shifting our understanding of what it is, it has disastrous consequences. 
 
2) Theological education is EXTREMELY important &lt;b&gt;for every follower of Jesus&lt;/b&gt;.  We have to get beyond the two-tiered system of super-Christians who get all the education and regular Christians who can turn their attention to other matters.   
 
More to come. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spoiler alert.  Here&#039;s how I will probably come at those 2 things. </p>
<p>1) Yes, this is true, but it necessitates a deep shift in how we understand church leadership.  As it is currently/popularly understood it&#039;s impossible and when we try to make it more rapid w/o shifting our understanding of what it is, it has disastrous consequences. </p>
<p>2) Theological education is EXTREMELY important <b>for every follower of Jesus</b>.  We have to get beyond the two-tiered system of super-Christians who get all the education and regular Christians who can turn their attention to other matters.   </p>
<p>More to come. </p>
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		<title>By: jrrozko</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-5898</link>
		<dc:creator>jrrozko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1362#comment-5898</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know that it&#039;s an outdated mindset, but how I wish it was.  The fact that we have created a two-tiered system in which some followers of Jesus, &quot;go into full-time ministry&quot; while others just lead &quot;normal lives,&quot; is lamentable to say the least and the faster we can kill it the better! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t know that it&#039;s an outdated mindset, but how I wish it was.  The fact that we have created a two-tiered system in which some followers of Jesus, &quot;go into full-time ministry&quot; while others just lead &quot;normal lives,&quot; is lamentable to say the least and the faster we can kill it the better! </p>
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		<title>By: Josh Garrington</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-5895</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Garrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1362#comment-5895</guid>
		<description>Bill, 
 
I&#039;m looking forward to your comments here.  I don&#039;t know how you know JR, but I&#039;ve found some of your stuff (via the Boars Head Tavern) and have enjoyed what I&#039;ve read. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, </p>
<p>I&#039;m looking forward to your comments here.  I don&#039;t know how you know JR, but I&#039;ve found some of your stuff (via the Boars Head Tavern) and have enjoyed what I&#039;ve read. </p>
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		<title>By: Josh Garrington</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/11/a-missional-vision-of-theological-education-preliminary-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-5893</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Garrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1362#comment-5893</guid>
		<description>Ok, you caught me in a possibly outdated mindset.  When I said &quot;just for me&quot;, my implication was meant to be, &#039;as opposed to the obvious option of going into full-time paid ministry&#039;.  That might not be an obvious option these days, especially on this blog!  Yes, that training would be put to use where applicable in my local church and elsewhere in my life. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, you caught me in a possibly outdated mindset.  When I said &quot;just for me&quot;, my implication was meant to be, &#039;as opposed to the obvious option of going into full-time paid ministry&#039;.  That might not be an obvious option these days, especially on this blog!  Yes, that training would be put to use where applicable in my local church and elsewhere in my life. </p>
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