<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		xmlns:itunes="http://www.itunes.com/dtds/podcast-1.0.dtd"
	xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Bi-Vocational Ministry</title>
	<atom:link href="http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/</link>
	<description>exploring the mystery of life and mission as one and the same</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 16:31:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: jrrozko</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-8079</link>
		<dc:creator>jrrozko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 23:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1235#comment-8079</guid>
		<description>Good thoughts, thanks for joining the conversation Jon.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good thoughts, thanks for joining the conversation Jon.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ThirstyJon</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-8078</link>
		<dc:creator>ThirstyJon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 21:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1235#comment-8078</guid>
		<description>I would submit that there is heaps of evidence in the New Testament (and Old) of ministers being paid full-time.  (Rusty and jrrosko, I said much more about this on the Rusty&#039;s facebook post.) 
 
Paul refers to the &quot;other apostles&quot; as being paid full time.  Jesus appeared to be paid full time. 
 
Of course, in our culture &quot;paid&quot; means receiving a paycheck.  Their pay may have been at least some in the form of &quot;provision.&quot;  (Resources) 
 
I can see the strategic value in some contexts (as described in your article) of following different models, but I don&#039;t believe it is accurate to say that the Bible emphasizes part time or not getting paid.  I would say that it actually very clearly teaches the opposite. 
 
I would have to experiment with &quot;bi vocational&quot; church planters to find out if it would really work better, but I can see the reasoning in this article.  We do live in a time where people need to be discipled &quot;from scratch&quot; and modeling &quot;making a living&quot; may be an important part of the church planting process.  We also live in a time where popular Christian culture wants everyone to &quot;get in line&quot; with the &quot;pastor&#039;s&quot; vision and things become hierarchical .  I can see the potential value of a &quot;come along side&quot; type church planter / church leader in this situation - a leader who is &quot;one of us.&quot; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would submit that there is heaps of evidence in the New Testament (and Old) of ministers being paid full-time.  (Rusty and jrrosko, I said much more about this on the Rusty&#039;s facebook post.) </p>
<p>Paul refers to the &quot;other apostles&quot; as being paid full time.  Jesus appeared to be paid full time. </p>
<p>Of course, in our culture &quot;paid&quot; means receiving a paycheck.  Their pay may have been at least some in the form of &quot;provision.&quot;  (Resources) </p>
<p>I can see the strategic value in some contexts (as described in your article) of following different models, but I don&#039;t believe it is accurate to say that the Bible emphasizes part time or not getting paid.  I would say that it actually very clearly teaches the opposite. </p>
<p>I would have to experiment with &quot;bi vocational&quot; church planters to find out if it would really work better, but I can see the reasoning in this article.  We do live in a time where people need to be discipled &quot;from scratch&quot; and modeling &quot;making a living&quot; may be an important part of the church planting process.  We also live in a time where popular Christian culture wants everyone to &quot;get in line&quot; with the &quot;pastor&#039;s&quot; vision and things become hierarchical .  I can see the potential value of a &quot;come along side&quot; type church planter / church leader in this situation &#8211; a leader who is &quot;one of us.&quot;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: abf2011</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-8077</link>
		<dc:creator>abf2011</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 21:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1235#comment-8077</guid>
		<description>apostolic pattern was the word I was looking for...recapturing the intimacy, simplicity, accountability and dynamic of first century church life.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>apostolic pattern was the word I was looking for&#8230;recapturing the intimacy, simplicity, accountability and dynamic of first century church life.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jrrozko</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-8076</link>
		<dc:creator>jrrozko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 19:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1235#comment-8076</guid>
		<description>I am probably with you on what I assume is your heart on this matter.  A desire to do things &quot;just like they did it in the Bible,&quot; has a ring of Christian passion and faithfulness to it that is hard to ignore, but there are at least 3 things to consider here that I don&#039;t think we can overlook. 
 
First, I would say that chief among the practices of the apostolic church is exactly what I am proposing here - contextualization.  The apostles were faithful to Jesus precisely because they refused to do things, &quot;just like they did it in the Bible.&quot;  The inbreaking of the Kingdom of God in and through Jesus called for a renewed understanding of God&#039;s design for his people and the apostles are to be emulated, in some instances for what they did (preaching, teaching, praying, sharing, sacrificing, etc.), but more so for how they did it - by responding to what God was doing in their midst and responding appropriately.   
 
The second thing that I would want to keep in mind is very closely related.  It&#039;s the idea that God&#039;s Holy Spirit is just as fervently at work today, leading, guiding, directing, revealing, as it was in the time of the apostles.  I would venture to suggest that if they could speak to us today, the main refrain of the apostles to us would be, &quot;Don&#039;t follow us - follow the Spirit!&quot;  Or, at least something very close to the actual words of the apostle Paul, &quot;Follow me as I follow Christ&quot; - who if of course our prime example of what it means and looks like to follow the Spirit.   
 
The last thing I would mention is the problem of interpretation.  Everybody and their brother tends to think that their way of reading the Bible is the right way, ya know?  So you read something and think you have the right view of how to do something and someone else, just as sincere, reads the same thing and interprets/applies it differently.  The point here is that communal discernment is needed and the desire to &quot;just do it like they did it in the Bible,&quot; as good as it sounds, just doesn&#039;t end up getting us as far as we would like it to. 
 
Hope that clarifies what I&#039;m saying a bit.  These are the senses in which I would want to focus on following the &quot;apostolic pattern.&quot;  It&#039;s not that I don&#039;t think the Bible is authoritative for life and ministry.  It&#039;s just that I think faithfulness to the kind of authority God means for the Bible to have in our lives entails discernment w/ regard to the leading of the Spirit in the midst of context, culture, and community. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am probably with you on what I assume is your heart on this matter.  A desire to do things &quot;just like they did it in the Bible,&quot; has a ring of Christian passion and faithfulness to it that is hard to ignore, but there are at least 3 things to consider here that I don&#039;t think we can overlook. </p>
<p>First, I would say that chief among the practices of the apostolic church is exactly what I am proposing here &#8211; contextualization.  The apostles were faithful to Jesus precisely because they refused to do things, &quot;just like they did it in the Bible.&quot;  The inbreaking of the Kingdom of God in and through Jesus called for a renewed understanding of God&#039;s design for his people and the apostles are to be emulated, in some instances for what they did (preaching, teaching, praying, sharing, sacrificing, etc.), but more so for how they did it &#8211; by responding to what God was doing in their midst and responding appropriately.   </p>
<p>The second thing that I would want to keep in mind is very closely related.  It&#039;s the idea that God&#039;s Holy Spirit is just as fervently at work today, leading, guiding, directing, revealing, as it was in the time of the apostles.  I would venture to suggest that if they could speak to us today, the main refrain of the apostles to us would be, &quot;Don&#039;t follow us &#8211; follow the Spirit!&quot;  Or, at least something very close to the actual words of the apostle Paul, &quot;Follow me as I follow Christ&quot; &#8211; who if of course our prime example of what it means and looks like to follow the Spirit.   </p>
<p>The last thing I would mention is the problem of interpretation.  Everybody and their brother tends to think that their way of reading the Bible is the right way, ya know?  So you read something and think you have the right view of how to do something and someone else, just as sincere, reads the same thing and interprets/applies it differently.  The point here is that communal discernment is needed and the desire to &quot;just do it like they did it in the Bible,&quot; as good as it sounds, just doesn&#039;t end up getting us as far as we would like it to. </p>
<p>Hope that clarifies what I&#039;m saying a bit.  These are the senses in which I would want to focus on following the &quot;apostolic pattern.&quot;  It&#039;s not that I don&#039;t think the Bible is authoritative for life and ministry.  It&#039;s just that I think faithfulness to the kind of authority God means for the Bible to have in our lives entails discernment w/ regard to the leading of the Spirit in the midst of context, culture, and community.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rusty W.</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-8075</link>
		<dc:creator>Rusty W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 19:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1235#comment-8075</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure why would we not look to the Bible for how to do things if the Bible is our final authority, not only in matters of faith, but also in matters of practice. I would place a bit more theological significance in the distinctive practices of the apostolic church. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m not sure why would we not look to the Bible for how to do things if the Bible is our final authority, not only in matters of faith, but also in matters of practice. I would place a bit more theological significance in the distinctive practices of the apostolic church.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jrrozko</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-8073</link>
		<dc:creator>jrrozko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1235#comment-8073</guid>
		<description>Hey Rusty.  Yeah, there&#039;s plenty of biblical precedent for various forms of &quot;financing ministry.&quot;  I am not sure that I would approach what we find there in a prescriptive way - as though we need to only ever do exactly what we see done in the Bible.  Rather, I think we begin with the description that we see and seek to faithfully apply it to our given context.  In other words, just because we don&#039;t see FT salaried support in the Bible doesn&#039;t necessarily mean that this system is automatically wrong.  It just means that we need to ask questions about the appropriateness of this model when it comes to how we understand the nature and role of the church as it seeks to incarnate itself in a given culture. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Rusty.  Yeah, there&#039;s plenty of biblical precedent for various forms of &quot;financing ministry.&quot;  I am not sure that I would approach what we find there in a prescriptive way &#8211; as though we need to only ever do exactly what we see done in the Bible.  Rather, I think we begin with the description that we see and seek to faithfully apply it to our given context.  In other words, just because we don&#039;t see FT salaried support in the Bible doesn&#039;t necessarily mean that this system is automatically wrong.  It just means that we need to ask questions about the appropriateness of this model when it comes to how we understand the nature and role of the church as it seeks to incarnate itself in a given culture.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Juliet</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-8072</link>
		<dc:creator>Juliet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 01:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1235#comment-8072</guid>
		<description>I also thought of Cyd, and Geoff is a great example of a husband who structures his life in order to support her in her ministry.  My husband is too....however, while his identity isn&#039;t tied up in his career, it&#039;s still a job that requires him to be at work five days a week for 8-9 hours, rather than a job where he can work a lot from home (like Geoff).  On the other hand, it is also a job that pays the bills well enough that I don&#039;t really &quot;have to&quot; earn a paycheck.  I&#039;ll have to look into Helen Lee.....I&#039;ve heard the book mentioned a number of times. 
 
Thanks for replying to my comment!  I hope to see more women following God&#039;s lead into missionally-shaped ministry too. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also thought of Cyd, and Geoff is a great example of a husband who structures his life in order to support her in her ministry.  My husband is too&#8230;.however, while his identity isn&#039;t tied up in his career, it&#039;s still a job that requires him to be at work five days a week for 8-9 hours, rather than a job where he can work a lot from home (like Geoff).  On the other hand, it is also a job that pays the bills well enough that I don&#039;t really &quot;have to&quot; earn a paycheck.  I&#039;ll have to look into Helen Lee&#8230;..I&#039;ve heard the book mentioned a number of times. </p>
<p>Thanks for replying to my comment!  I hope to see more women following God&#039;s lead into missionally-shaped ministry too.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rusty W.</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-8071</link>
		<dc:creator>Rusty W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2011 21:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1235#comment-8071</guid>
		<description>Loved your article. Especially since I myself am bi-vocational. Even though I didn&#039;t read the comments listed, you brought up valid commentary in the post. I would also add that there is good Scriptural support for financing the work of ministry. However, nothing such as a salaried paid position seems likely. More along the lines of part-time, occasional support.  
My recent post &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aboutaburningfire.com/5-hallmarks-of-religious-people&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;5 Hallmarks of Religious People&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loved your article. Especially since I myself am bi-vocational. Even though I didn&#039;t read the comments listed, you brought up valid commentary in the post. I would also add that there is good Scriptural support for financing the work of ministry. However, nothing such as a salaried paid position seems likely. More along the lines of part-time, occasional support.<br />
My recent post <a href="http://www.aboutaburningfire.com/5-hallmarks-of-religious-people" rel="nofollow">5 Hallmarks of Religious People</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jrrozko</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-8070</link>
		<dc:creator>jrrozko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2011 20:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1235#comment-8070</guid>
		<description>That is a great question.  Of course our mutual friend in Cyd comes to mind.  Amy actually may have some examples as well.  Have you heard of Helen Lee?  She wrote a book called, &quot;The Missional Mom.&quot;  She is here in Chicago and would be a good conversation partner.  
 
I&#039;d venture to say that the &quot;success&quot; of mom&#039;s being able to live out a life of bi-vocational ministry will be directly proportional to the willingness of their husbands to structure their lives in such a way that this is actually a possibility.  Dad&#039;s who have all their identity in their careers won&#039;t be able to lend the right kinds of support.  For my part, as someone who believes that all ministry should be shared by gifted men and women, I think we need to see way more examples of families and communities allowing the contours of life in God&#039;s Kingdom to determine the shape of their lives, which would translate, presumably, into seeing more women encouraged and supported into bi-vocational lives as pastors and Christian leaders. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a great question.  Of course our mutual friend in Cyd comes to mind.  Amy actually may have some examples as well.  Have you heard of Helen Lee?  She wrote a book called, &quot;The Missional Mom.&quot;  She is here in Chicago and would be a good conversation partner.  </p>
<p>I&#039;d venture to say that the &quot;success&quot; of mom&#039;s being able to live out a life of bi-vocational ministry will be directly proportional to the willingness of their husbands to structure their lives in such a way that this is actually a possibility.  Dad&#039;s who have all their identity in their careers won&#039;t be able to lend the right kinds of support.  For my part, as someone who believes that all ministry should be shared by gifted men and women, I think we need to see way more examples of families and communities allowing the contours of life in God&#039;s Kingdom to determine the shape of their lives, which would translate, presumably, into seeing more women encouraged and supported into bi-vocational lives as pastors and Christian leaders.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Juliet</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-8069</link>
		<dc:creator>Juliet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2011 18:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1235#comment-8069</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m wondering if you know any women who are also mothers who have had a good experience with bi-vocational ministry.  I am trying to imagine it as part of my life right now and feel like if I could just sit down with a room full of women who have had to make this journey, I could have a better picture of what it would be like. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m wondering if you know any women who are also mothers who have had a good experience with bi-vocational ministry.  I am trying to imagine it as part of my life right now and feel like if I could just sit down with a room full of women who have had to make this journey, I could have a better picture of what it would be like.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jrrozko</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-6896</link>
		<dc:creator>jrrozko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 03:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1235#comment-6896</guid>
		<description>Thanks for stppoing by Terry.  Your book looks interesting - hope to give it a look.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for stppoing by Terry.  Your book looks interesting &#8211; hope to give it a look.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Terry Dorsett</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-6895</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Dorsett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Aug 2010 00:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1235#comment-6895</guid>
		<description>Thanks for speaking up for bivocational ministry. Consider making your readers aware of my new book. 
Developing Leadership Teams in the Bivocational Church, published by Crossbooks, a division of Lifeway.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.crossbooks.com/BookStore/BookStoreBookDetails.aspx?bookid=58188&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.crossbooks.com/BookStore/BookStoreBook...&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for speaking up for bivocational ministry. Consider making your readers aware of my new book.<br />
Developing Leadership Teams in the Bivocational Church, published by Crossbooks, a division of Lifeway.  <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/BookStore/BookStoreBookDetails.aspx?bookid=58188" rel="nofollow">http://www.crossbooks.com/BookStore/BookStoreBook&#8230;</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lifeasmission &#187; Top Posts of 2009 &#187; exploring the mystery of life and mission as one and the same</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-6204</link>
		<dc:creator>lifeasmission &#187; Top Posts of 2009 &#187; exploring the mystery of life and mission as one and the same</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1235#comment-6204</guid>
		<description>[...] Bi-Vocational Ministry [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bi-Vocational Ministry [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jrrozko</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-5742</link>
		<dc:creator>jrrozko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1235#comment-5742</guid>
		<description>:)  Thanks.  Can&#039;t think of anyone I&#039;d rather have watching my back. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://lifeasmission.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   Thanks.  Can&#039;t think of anyone I&#039;d rather have watching my back.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Deb</title>
		<link>http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2009/10/bi-vocational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-5737</link>
		<dc:creator>Deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=1235#comment-5737</guid>
		<description>I was raised by what we called in the &#039;60&#039;s a &quot;tent maker&quot;.   Dad pastored a church and taught in the High School.  Sadly - they still saw him as the pastor - too traditional then to step up and take responsiblity - but Dad brought a lot of people to Jesus and many more to at least question Christianities validity.  His life was Solid - unquestionable - and his life at the school was many times more ministry than at the Church.  I still have friends from my HS contact me, because Of Dad.    I think you are on the right track - and I think that my Denomination should seriously consider it - but it will take a while.  
Love you and I have your back!! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was raised by what we called in the &#039;60&#039;s a &quot;tent maker&quot;.   Dad pastored a church and taught in the High School.  Sadly &#8211; they still saw him as the pastor &#8211; too traditional then to step up and take responsiblity &#8211; but Dad brought a lot of people to Jesus and many more to at least question Christianities validity.  His life was Solid &#8211; unquestionable &#8211; and his life at the school was many times more ministry than at the Church.  I still have friends from my HS contact me, because Of Dad.    I think you are on the right track &#8211; and I think that my Denomination should seriously consider it &#8211; but it will take a while.<br />
Love you and I have your back!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

