Comments on: Bi-Vocational Ministry & Spiritual Formation

By: Jason Coker

Jason Coker — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:25:23 +0000

"I am fully of the mind that the value of our theology is to be found not in its logical defensibility, but in what it "DOES" in the life of the believing community."

Very well said JR.

Say hello to Ben Sternke for me : )

By: jrrozko

jrrozko — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:51:59 +0000

Hey Jason. Good words as always. I totally get what you are saying about conversion. And it's certainly not the case that I am against it or or anything (saying this more for the benefit of others than yourself), but I am decidedly of the mind that a missional reading of Scripture will revolutionize the way in which we understand the nature of conversion. But yes, helping others see that is lots and lots and lots of hard work.

Pragmatism and power, yeah, good distinction. It's a matter of semantics. I suppose the real trouble is not with doing what works, but actually redefining how we should understand what "works" in a missional sense even means. I am fully of the mind that the value of our theology is to be found not in its logical defensibility, but in what it "DOES" in the life of the believing community. Thanks for entering the discussion man.

By: jrrozko

jrrozko — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:46:22 +0000

Hey Jamie. Yeah, sure discipleship is a long process, lifelong But hey, that's what we signed up for right? Definitely something to be said for God's faithfulness through generations of those faithful to the covenant, but that probably gives us more incentive to continue in that faithfulness by renewing that faithfulness.

By: Jason Coker

Jason Coker — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 23:46:09 +0000

Love this post, and I could add some interesting anecdotes but I'll just say this: It's very hard to convey the subtle yet significant distinction between conversion and spiritual formation, especially to one's denominational leaders who want to know why you've chosen to plant the sort of church that, by design, won't attract very many people. Conversion is a tough habit to kick in evangelical circles.

I also want to point out that there's a fine line between pragmatism and power. I know the church growth movement is often blamed on a kind of cultural pragmatism, but the fact is Jesus was very pragmatic ("I can only do what I see the father doing"). He seemed to do "what worked," because, of course, whatever God is already doing is what "works" for the Kingdom and, by extension, for us. So I'd say "Does it work?" is an important question to ask of our methods as long as its aim always remains the mission of joining God is his work to bring the Kingdom and make disciples.

By: jamie

jamie — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:12:32 +0000

i´m with you on discipling and formation, but WOW is it a long process and it seems (at least in my circles) that we are not experts at that…
even those of us who grew up in christian homes… i wonder how much discipling we really experienced or how much was/is actually a "leftover blessing" from generations before us.
advice is greatly appreciated!