lifeasmission
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On Salvation
A long while ago I had some thoughts on understanding salvation as a sort of cosmic dance. This past weekend, as our missional church community gathered, we proclaimed this truth…
God’s Salvation is cosmic and we receive it only by participating in it.
This is vastly different than the more common evangelical take on salvation as something we receive by virtue of a decision we make, illustrated thusly…
Anyone care to offer any thoughts on the subject? I’m particularly interested in what others might thing is the central implication for the life of a church community if this difference is to be reckoned with.
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Shawn said...
1It might just be the definition of "participate" that begins the conversation. Is it simply the individual participating in the Salvation of God?
09/23/09 6:00 PM | Comment Link
Shawn said...
2On my lunch break I drove thru the golden arces, following a new caddy with a bumper sticker that read "Jesus is the Answer". I couldn't help but think, "thats likely true, but what is the question?" My empire saturated mind (and soon belly) could only assume that the question might be: "how do i get to the place where i own a shiney new cadillac?'my evangelical up bringing reminded me that the question most likely assumed here was:"How am I saved?"
09/23/09 6:03 PM | Comment Link
Shawn said...
3But what does it mean to participate in salvation. Certainly, its not buy identifing myself as one who knows the ANSWER, gathering with others who know the ANSWER , and beginning to compete for space among other Answers. Yet isn't this exactly what we do? No, too particpate in salvation must mean something completely different. Something foreign to us something out on the edge of what we know and see. It must rest somewhere in the tension of the physical and non. And to participate in it must mean to somehow engage this mystery buy tending to places where salvation is lost and found. Is it a cosmic dance, maybe, but it might be one done out of time and in the dark.
09/23/09 6:03 PM | Comment Link
Ben Sternke said...
4I have a couple thoughts.
One is that this way of understanding salvation completely does away with grace vs. works dichotomy. If receiving salvation means participating in something cosmic, then OF COURSE I'm going to grow in holiness and love for others, because that's the kind of world God is creating in his saving work. The whole point is not "getting to heaven" but learning how to live in God's new world.
The other is that it seems to me that many people try to "join" the kingdom the same way they "join" a Facebook group. It's a one-time decision, some kind of show of solidarity, or something that seemed like a good idea at the time. But it has absolutely no effect on my life from that point on. It's just a badge I wear to identify myself to others, just like the car I drive, the clothes I wear, the way I style my hair… the clubs I belong to (including Christianity, or perhaps what brand of Christianity) are the "social capital" I use to declare to the world how ________ I am.
09/23/09 7:10 PM | Comment Link
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09/23/09 1:12 PM | Comment Link
Katie Cordell said...
6JR…thanks so much for the thought provoking question. I don't have anything to contribute to the conversation, but it has definitely challenged my way of thinking and turned me to the Bible to see if some of the things/ways I have been taught are true and can even be found in the Bible. You know where I come from and how I was brought up….I'm sure you know you have rocked my world with this one.
09/23/09 7:18 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
7Yup, a good question for sure. But however we define it, it relocates salvation as something which "belongs to our God" (Rev. 7:10) as opposed to something we can lay claim to.
09/23/09 7:28 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
8A good question for consumer Christianity if there ever was one. I think I know that guy
09/23/09 7:32 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
9Good words.
09/23/09 7:33 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
10Love it. Nothing Western Christianity lacks more than an ecclesial vision that does away with dichotomies, especially the grace & works one. Here's to the demise of Facebook group Christianity!
09/23/09 7:39 PM | Comment Link
Shawn said...
11exactly … i think that should challenge the Christian thinker … why do we feel this urge to compete for space among all the other truth claims… trying to fight off what isn't "us" … and often using violence as a way to "spread" the good news
09/23/09 7:40 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
12Hey Katie, glad the post provoked some thought. Here's one key to keep in mind as you search the Bible regarding salvation. Nearly always, when you read about the need to "believe," it doesn't mean merely to know, the way you know 2+2=4, but to order your life around, like knowing you are pregnant!
09/23/09 7:46 PM | Comment Link
Sean said...
13Decision. The problem is not with decision. The problem is with what are we (Christians) deciding. The same is true with 'believe'. There is this idea that runs throughout the church; and this couldn't be more of a generalized statement, that we simply decide to go to heaven. AKA- decide to 'accept Christ' and therefor get the ticket for salvation. The problem is not with the decision but with the understanding of what salvation is. Salvation by definition is 'saved', and as Christians we understand that as saved from death. Death according to scriptures is anything outside the realm of who God is. John 1 tells us that in him was/ is life. As living humans, no matter how far away from God we are, we still have elements of life (God) in us, but until we 'decide' to accept the free gift of grace through Jesus, we are destined for that 'life' to run out. All of that to say that the problem is not with deciding upon 'life', but understanding that 'life' is going on now. Deciding to believe in Jesus means that you believe in every aspect of Him, including his definition of what life is. ( sacrifice? total focus on the will of the father? and love for others? goal to spread life?) In essence, if we understand what we are believing or deciding, we will get it right. It will impact our lives and those around us. James 2:17 &18 " . . .faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do." Belief, decision, faith all require more than just saying so, honoring God with lips.
All of that to say, good, thought provoking question. I understand, so much as I can, the 'cosmic dance', so to speak. I also like the idea of approaching the concept from a different, more active angle in 'participating' in it. However, no matter what, there is a crossroads (and probably several,depending on how you look at it) where you have to make a decision, and understanding what that decision is – is key.
09/24/09 3:17 AM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
14Hey Sean, dude you wrote a lot! I think the conversation changes some when we think of salvation not as something we decide about, but something we receive. True, in a sense, there is still the matter of deciding to receive a gift, but that is still different that deciding something in a consumeristic sense – which is precisely the manner in which salvation is often characterized. I am not sure we can any more decide to be saved than we can decide to be born into the family that we are. We can reject it or deny it, or we can get on board with the way things are. I guess that falls into the category of decision in some sense. But, like the prodigal son deciding to return to his father, it seems that a receiving of salvation has more to do with discovery (of our ow and needy estate) than it does with decision (to receive something so long as we perceive that it's desirable).
09/24/09 5:38 PM | Comment Link
Shawn said...
15recieve, or decide … both words seem to deal with a transaction that leaves the recipient or the decider with a sense of ownership, or posession… we are in grave danger the moment we begin to see salvation (almost said "our salvation") as something we own or posess.
09/25/09 11:52 AM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
16Unless we receive salvation as an invitation to participate in something. It's like playing a sport or an instrument – the "having" in in the doing.
09/25/09 12:29 PM | Comment Link
Shawn said...
17not sure that im "buying" the "individual" "personal" participation.
I think that it will always lead to "us" v. "them" (Saved v. Un-saved, I once belonged to a church that called them "not yet Christians, still far from God" implying that as soon as "we" bring "them" to God or bring God to them then
"they" will be part of "us"… this is where I struggle, Not the JESUS model)Maybe it works out better to say (incarnationally) that all of creation is participating in Salvation (Christus Victor) some knowlingly others not. "the "having" is in the doing", in so much as a waltz can be "done" at a square dance.
MAYBE!!
09/25/09 3:35 PM | Comment Link
jrrozko said...
18good thoughts man – keep at it. I am gonna be doing some more thinking along these lines and see what I come up with.
09/28/09 3:27 PM | Comment Link
Shawn said...
19How cosmic was it that I actually bumped into you at the mall…
So good to see you man and meet amy. Good for my soul, I can't even begin to tell you!
09/28/09 5:09 PM | Comment Link