lifeasmission
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Why I’m Not Voting
The Short Answer:
It’s a biblical/theological decision that has to do with conscience (1 Cor. 10:31-33) and not the candidates themselves
The longer, but hopefully more interesting answer:
As I did 4 years ago, I have toiled and prayed over this decision for months and have not come to it lightly. But, for the life of me, when I try to envision Jesus living here and now, I just can’t see him walking into an election booth. Others have no problem with this vision, many of them even have no problem stating for sure just which box he’d tick, but the Jesus I encounter in the gospels refused to capitulate to the political parties of his day and in trying to follow him, I am simply more interested in charting a different course altogether and inviting others along.
Tim Kumfer, in his brilliant article, “Between Sojourners and the Simple Way? Rethinking Radical Evangelical Politics in ’08 with John Howard Yoder” says,
A majority of the church in the United States still assumes that voting is one of the most meaningful ways Christians can engage themselves politically. This assumption is Constantinian; it assumes that politics for Christians is primarily about ensuring that society is headed our way…the problem occurs when we are more concerned with managing this realm than witnessing to a different one.
This mentality was perfectly embodied just the other day as I listened to a gentleman speak to a large crowd, encouraging them to vote for whichever candidate they thought would most ensure freedom of religious rights for Christians. I find this sort of thinking to be positively debilitating to the character of the Church. To think for a moment that the Church would believe that its ability to function had anything whatsoever to do with government protected rights is just the sort of posture that led to the utter decimation of the people of God in the First Testament. A Church which looks to the government to protect its rights is in grave danger.
This really worries me. Not only because I live in a place where the reality of this assumption is thicker than I have ever experienced, but because I am not above falling prey to it.
As I understand the Bible, I would say that all those who follow Jesus are given freedom to vote if they choose, but nowhere do I sense that this is an obligation. There are typically two common biblical objections to this which I will try to respond to briefly.
The first is Jesus’ command, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s.” (Mark 12:17) I actually think (ala NT Wright) that in classic Jesus fashion, this is an underhanded way of saying, “Caesar actually doesn’t have a right to anything since everything is God’s. So, if you want to pay taxes (or vote or otherwise participate in government), go right ahead, just don’t forget who you are ultimately accountable to.”
Others would quote Romans 13:1, “The authorities that exist have been established by God.” But I am reminded that secular governments, even democratic ones, are a result of people rejecting God (1 Sam. 8:7). Not rebelling against them is one thing – we made our bed and therefore must lie in it, but assuming they have a claim on our allegiance and participation is quite another.
Not voting is a way to remind myself (and hopefully others) of these things – that it is the church and the church alone which witnesses to a new world order – which is called to put on display in the here and now what God dreams for the new creation.
A few influences. Shane Claiborne wrote a good article entitled, “Advise Everyone… Endorse No One” that helped me to think about these issues.
As one with Anabaptist leanings, I was influenced, first in 2005, and again this year, by this article from John D. Roth, “Polls Apart.”
The words of Stanley Hauerwas in this article/audio were helpful.
As were David Fitch’s musings on, “Not Voting as an Act of Christian Discernment: Calling the Emerging Church Into a Different Kind of Faithfulness.”
Liked Mark Van Steenwyk’s thoughts here.
Finally, once again Derek Webb has come through on the bonus track of the re-release of Mockingbird (which you can get for free here), with “How Then Shall We Then Vote?”
It may very well be that my decision on this matter comes from having a weaker conscience than some others, but as it indeed is my conscience here I stand and can do no other.
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JoeyG said...
1Great post. Good words by Webb. I appreciate your concern and thoughtfulness on this. You are a blessing bro.
11/3/08 6:07 PM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
2Thanks for the kind words Joey. Thanks much more though for your partnership in living out the good news.
11/3/08 6:18 PM | Comment Link
Nathan said...
3Jrr Jr,
“First Testament”?
I will vote for any candidate who promises to make you stop saying that.
In all seriousness (well, I am serious about thinking “first testament” is a big mistake) thanks for puting your thoughts out there. It takes courage with an issue like this.
Nathan
11/3/08 7:52 PM | Comment Link
Ryan Conrad said...
4I too appreciated the perspective. And I enjoy John Roth’s words as well-
11/3/08 7:57 PM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
5@Nathan – didn’t think that much about the phrase, I just try not to pass pre-Jesus Bible history off as “old.” What should I say?
@Ryan – thanks man
11/3/08 8:20 PM | Comment Link
Nathan said...
6I think we should keeping saying “Old Testament”. Not only is it biblical (by implication Lk 22:20; Jer 31:31), but for 2000 years until about five minutes ago it was universally accepted by Christians. Also, Christians should be the first to try to persuade our novelty-loving culture that old things are good. And last but not least, “first testament” implies that the “second testament” is simply the latest in a potentially endless series of testaments, and not the definitive fulfillment of the promises of the first, which Christians understand it to be.
11/3/08 9:13 PM | Comment Link
Rachel said...
7JR-
I’m by no means a biblical scholar, I just do not agree with this perspective. I think we have a responsibility to vote. I’m not one to get into a big discussion about it so sorry if that’s annoying, but I thought I would put my opinion out there too. Thanks for yours.
Rachel
11/3/08 10:00 PM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
8@Nathan – Not to split hairs, but I do think there is an important distinction to be made between testament and covenant. While I would certainly never want to imply that the “new covenant” was not also the final covenant, I think I’d be just fine with a continuing line of testaments – cohesive accounts of God’s working in the world and amongst God’s people. Not necessarily saying we need to consider adding books to the Bible, just trying to articulate the difference here. That being said, I’m still not voting
@Rachel – How do you arrive at that conclusion? Are you certain enough of it that you would encourage me to rethink or outright violate my conscience on the issue? Will you still be my friend if I don’t vote? You should know that when I was with Norah 3 weeks ago, I explained to her in baby language that she doesn’t have to vote either!
11/3/08 10:39 PM | Comment Link
Katie said...
9JR, I was speaking about this very thing with Taylor, our 9 year old, just yesterday. They were having a mock election at school today and she didn’t want to vote. I told her that it is our right as citizens to vote, but nobody can make us. You can also exercise your right as a citizen to not vote, that is what a democracy is all about. I did mention to Taylor that if you choose not to vote, you give up the right to complain about the decisions that the elected make. But since our hope is in Someone bigger than either candidate, I am not sure that their decisions will really matter. That’s my thoughts anyway…Katie
11/3/08 11:10 PM | Comment Link
Emily said...
10I’m so glad you finally posted on this! (well, “finally” in my mind since I’ve been thinking about this so much lately!) I won’t be voting either, mainly because I was too lazy to register in time in this state, but also a great part due to the concerns you raised. I’m just too conflicted about the act of it, and while I don’t hate either of the candidates, and I even favor one of them, I don’t feel like putting my hat in with one of them would be anything less than a compromise. Can’t wait to check-out some of the links you listed, maybe I’ll get-up my courage to blog about it, too. =)
11/3/08 11:36 PM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
11Katie, that’s cool to hear. I would want to accent it in one important way. Whether or not we vote, the Church is called to serve the world. One of the ways in which we do this is reminding our governments and leaders that they are accountable before God to act justly. I do not think for a moment that because I chose not to vote, I forfeit my responsibility to both support and critique when and how necessary. In fact, choosing not to side with one ideology over another probably puts us in a better position to do just that. We do this specifically because their decisions DO matter. Make sense?
11/3/08 11:39 PM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
12Emily, circumstances aside, I’m glad for the companionship.
11/3/08 11:41 PM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
13Just to add to the discussion, I thought I would throw this on here. I had a friend who raised another common objection to the decision to not vote by saying,
It still saddens me that someone would throw away their voice and say that it is the most Christian thing they think they can do. It took a lot of people throughout the ages to finally arrive at the point that we are at, many sacrificed greatly to give you this ability that you are just casting aside as if it is a heroic thing to not vote. But… hey, that is the beauty of America, we are all entitled to our own opinions.
I responded,
To be fair, I didn’t say it was the most Christian thing I could do. I said it was a response to my conscience and even conceded that perhaps I have a weak conscience on this issue – not sure about that. More than this, I am far more interested in what God sacrificed to give me the opportunity to live for a reality which transcends this shadowy existence than I am any other sacrifice, however noble. I see nothing heroic in my decision, only a humble attempt at faithfulness to Christ. If you feel more faithful to Jesus by voting in our Presidential election, then I feel that’s precisely what you should do. If freedom of opinion is what makes America beautiful, how much more beautiful is the freedom we have in Christ to lay our opinions at the foot of a cross.
11/4/08 12:56 AM | Comment Link
Nathan said...
14It’s great to muddle an already difficult issue by pulling this in too.
Some hair splitting may be necessary. The word testament, when referring to the Old and New Testaments, does not mean testimony or something like that. It is a translation of the Latin testamentum which was itself a translation of the Greek diatheke. In other words, the names for the two parts of the Bible were derived from Jesus’ words at the Last Supper (kaine diatheke), translated into Latin (novum testamentum), and then translated into English (lots of our biblical language is influenced by the Latin translation). The problem with translating diatheke as testament is well illustrated here: it gives the impression that we have an Old and New testimony, rather than Old and New Covenant.
The short answer to all this is: you’re using the wrong definition of testament. Used in this context it’s a translation of diatheke. It means covenant.
11/4/08 8:42 AM | Comment Link
Jay said...
15“But, for the life of me, when I try to envision Jesus living here and now, I just can’t see him walking into an election booth.”
“I didn’t say it was the most Christian thing I could do”
JR- I think you contradict yourself with these words, and I think you have proposed something very strong without any real evidence of how Jesus would react to a democracy. You and I both know where where I stand on the spectrum of theological knowledge, but my first thought, and correct me if I am wrong, is that Christ didn’t live in a democracy. Voting wasn’t an option at the time, so how can you deduce from what we have in Scripture whether or not He would have participated? Or, whether or not we should? I certainly agree that if someone feels that the Spirit is moving them to not vote, then by all means they should go with that. I just think that if that is what you are saying, then you need to be a little more clear, as this post comes off as “Christ wouldn’t vote, so voting is wrong.” I know that throughout the post you say other things. like,
“I would say that all those who follow Jesus are given freedom to vote if they choose,”
however I think you may want to more carefully choose your words, or the order in which you put them out there.
11/4/08 8:48 AM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
16@Nathan – Indeed I am. I was going with the common understanding as opposed to the Latin roots, but you are of course correct. Rest assured my friend, I don’t fear the use of the words old and new when it comes to referring to the main sections of the Bible or the covenants which they center around. Yet, at times, I find it helpful to use different words for the sake of communication. I have a couple of Jewish friends who don’t like their Bible referred to as old and most of the believers that I know hear the word old and hear unimportant. I have some of these folks in mind when I refer to the Hebrew Scriptures as the “First Testament.”
@Jay – Good stuff. OK, a bit more nuancing it is then.
Sure, Jesus didn’t live in a democracy, but that’s not to say that he didn’t have socio-political options to choose from. He could have aligned himself with the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Zealots, the Essenes, or other smaller factions who were engaging the Roman empire in a variety of ways, but he chose not to. This is of course not a direct correlation, but I think there is something to be gleaned nevertheless.
More important than this is the admonition that we all do all sorts of stuff that Jesus probably wouldnt do if he were alive today, which is why I didn’t hang my argument on this guess of mine, but instead set it as a matter of conscience. I was saying that since I couldn’t imagine Jesus voting, I needed to go to God in prayer, talk with others, search the Scriptures, etc., to see if my conscience would allow me to vote. I found that it would not.
It may very well be that not voting is indeed the most Christian thing any of us could do, but I am not willing to say that. It is scary to me that so many other followers of Jesus would so easily assume that voting is the most Christian thing to do. I wonder how many Christians who vote in this election will do so because of their thoughtful biblical conscience on the matter as opposed to misguided principles and values? Too few I fear.
11/4/08 11:48 AM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
17My friend and former professor Ryan Bolger asks, “Would Jesus Vote?“ This is the sort of biblical/theological reflection that ought to undergird our decision to vote or not to vote.
11/4/08 12:20 PM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
18Another note after having a fun conversation with my local barista… I do not see my decision to not vote as exercising a democratic right that I have. I see it as a matter of Christian conscience. Through the ages and into the present, Christians have been asked to give their allegiance to a socio-political system through some token of participation – just bow the knee, just a pinch of incense, just utter one phrase – or face death. I do not face death, but my decision is of that sort. If my democratic right to not vote were taken away, I pray that God would give me the grace to stand firm in my decision. So too I would hope that my voting friends, were their right to vote be taken away, would rise up, speak out, demonstrate, and otherwise strive for the cause of justice.
11/4/08 12:44 PM | Comment Link
z cordell said...
19wwamd ?(what would al mohler do)
http://www.albertmohler.com/blog.php
11/4/08 6:04 PM | Comment Link
Rachel said...
20Oh man…I don’t want to get in the middle of this…I really don’t. I know those of you that are close to Josh are going to think, “what crazy woman did he marry?”, but here we go.
I think this is too much thinking. I believe this view is probably frustrating to people who would not say they were Christians and they would develop a view of Christians because of it. I should not care about this, but I do.
I guess I am one of those people who do not need to think too long and hard about decisions. I never have and these types of conversations drive me crazy.
I really do not want to offend anyone and JR, I know after your phone conversation with Josh today you will not be offended, but I have never even thought of not voting. I almost feel off the couch when I read the title of your post.
Ok, I’m done. And for those of you who don’t know me, it’s not that I walk blindly through life and make decisions with no thought, I just approach things differently.
11/4/08 6:43 PM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
21Oh Mohler… I couldn’t have asked for a better example of a black and white vision of the Christian faith that continues to marginalize those who follow Christ and call into question the manner is which the Church is called to relate to the state.
From Al, “the first duty of freedom — the freedom to vote.”
Try this on for size.
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Mark my words! I, JR, tell you that if you let others convince you that you must vote in order to be a true Christian, Christ will be of no value to you at all. – Galatians 5:1-2 (kinda)
Circumcision, voting, the point is the same – following Jesus isn’t enough, you must follow him like us or you’re not truly following him.
11/4/08 6:44 PM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
22Rachel, if anyone thinks that of you, I got your back. Hear that blog-o-sphere, stay away from my friend Rachel. She does approach things differently and the world is a better place for it. Don’t worry Rachel, that husband of yours does enough thinking for the both of us!
11/4/08 6:51 PM | Comment Link
Joshua said...
23Ok, we spoke already Junior, but I wanted to put my response out there for your readers as well. I disagree with your position, but in the end understand that you arrived at your decision with much thought so I respect it even though I cannot accept it. I think that voting is a global responsibility shouldered by the American populace. The results of today’s vote will have global implications for the next four years and will result in the life of death of people across the globe for four years. That responsibility is precisely the type of thing I think Christians should be concerned about, and I think that because the global responsibility is so vast, Christians should be obliged to vote.
At the same time, like I said, I know you thought of this, and have your reasons for deciding otherwise. The only reason I say anything is because it has not been expressed yet in this discussion. I respect your decision and will agree to disagree with you on this.
And how about calling it the Tanakh? I’m surprised that hasn’t come up yet.
11/4/08 7:32 PM | Comment Link
Joshua said...
24uh… duh… i meant “life or death.” I’m a moron. (And by that I was referring to the President’s power as Commander-in-Chief.)
11/4/08 7:34 PM | Comment Link
Nathan said...
25Tanakh or “Hebrew bible”, which is what I usually say when chatting with Jewish folks. But it remains very important, I would argue, for Christians to use Old and New Testament (or, perhaps, Covenant) in liturgy and theology, and in casual conversations with Christians who think old means bad (it’s a good opportunity to disabuse them).
11/4/08 7:54 PM | Comment Link
Amy said...
26Well said, JR! I admire your willingness to prayerfully and thoughtfully reflect on the issue of the election and then act according to your convictions and conscience. Thanks for challenging the rest of us to think through this decision (and others!) without bringing judgement on those who’ve chosen to act differently today.
11/4/08 10:30 PM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
27Thanks for taking the time to write Josh. For the record, and I would assume you know this about me, in not voting, I am in no way turning a blind eye or deaf ear to the plight of our world, much less the implications of this election. Rather, I am trying to reinforce the idea there is a way the Church is called to address that plight that secular governments simply cannot. Not saying that makes them wrong, just emphasizing the distinction. For now, I feel compelled to, inasmuch as I can, maximize my commitment to the embodiment of God’s Kingdom in and through the church, which means minimizing my participation in systems and structures guided by alternative visions of reality. Again, I take this as matter of conscience and don’t claim this as THE RIGHT way to think and act – I have plenty of room for my brothers and sisters who feel compelled to vote because they judge this to be a means of justice in the world.
Nathan – I am all for disabusing people – right on.
Amy – Thanks much for the support!
11/5/08 2:13 AM | Comment Link
Brooke said...
28Found your post from a link on Emily’s blog. Interesting perspective and comments all the way down.
I wish my reason for not voting was as well thought out as yours. Alas, I didn’t have enough confidence in either one to pick the “lesser of two evils” – whatever that means. And I have some big time issues with getting too riled up by one party and wanting to vote the other just because – which I realize to be completely ridiculous. The two of those things put together led to me feeling more responsible by not choosing.
I do believe voting is important, but just as important is our freedom NOT to. I’m not a fan of laziness as a reason for sitting out at the polls, but if we have studied the issues/candidates and come to the informed conclusion not to support either – well, that’s one of the beauties of America.
11/5/08 4:43 AM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
29Thanks Brooke, good to have you stop by. As I mentioned above, I try not to put too much stock in any “rights” afforded me by the country in which I happen to live. To do so would be to miss the point of what freedom in Christ is all about – a true freedom despite those right being taken away (as they are for so many of our brothers and sisters around the world). This, as I said, is the beauty of the gospel which far outshines any beauty of America or any other country for that matter.
11/5/08 10:23 AM | Comment Link
Becky said...
30I didn’t vote yesterday either. I wish my reason was a result of a well thought out decision making, but it wasn’t. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
11/5/08 11:12 PM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
31Sure thing, thanks Becky.
11/6/08 12:38 AM | Comment Link
Mandy & Lee said...
32Goodness, JR! I think some people are in need of a little spooning! (From their SPOUSES!)
11/6/08 11:23 AM | Comment Link
Dress-Down Friday: Post-Election Edition said...
33[...] Why I’m Not Voting [...]
11/7/08 2:36 PM | Comment Link
Laurie said...
34I agree that GOD (as opposed to the President or politics) is THE source of healing for the world’s ill, but I don’t think that negates the need for and usefulness of human systems. Because we live in a broken world, we actually need systems to deal with the consequences/chaos that comes from that brokenness.
If I’m “hearing” correctly, the primary argument against voting that has been posed in this post and comments is that politics cannot and should not replace the Church’s role of pursuing healing for the world. I definitely agree with that, but I don’t agree that such a distinction should cause us to discount the value of politics. That kind of logic can easily be used to argue against, for example, going to a doctor when you’re sick. In other words, just because God is the ultimate and only true Healer doesn’t mean you don’t need to go to the doctor.
My point is this… Is there not room for both politics and faith to function in their respective roles? Yes, I believe that politics will never be the source of healing for the world’s brokenness. BUT can politics not be a way to manage the chaos in the meantime – WHILE the Church both pursues healing and waits for Christ’s final victory over sin?
11/7/08 11:28 PM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
35Hi Laurie, thanks for your thoughts. Just to clarify (again) – I made no arguments against voting. I only sought to make a defense for my own conscience in this matter. I did not say no Christians should vote and I did not say that non-church politics was meaningless. Quite the opposite I would say that it is a significant way in which God works out justice in the world, but just because God uses a person or a system doesn’t automatically legitimize them – after all, God used the Roman government to crucify Jesus, but I shudder to think that we would therefore condone it.
To quote myself, “I would say that all those who follow Jesus are given freedom to vote if they choose, but nowhere do I sense that this is an obligation.” So, to stick with your good analogy – if I am sick and want to go to the doctor, I may freely choose to do so. But, as one who worships the healer of all creation, this might not have to be my default position.
I’ll say it another way, or rather let Paul say it another way, in the context of a discussion about matters of conscience, the apostle Paul says, “… everything that does not come from faith is sin.” (Rom. 14) This is why I did not vote. Because in my estimation that action, for me, would not have been coming from faith in God – it would have been coming from my faith in non-church politics and a system so compromised that I worry about just how much a role I play in it.
Laurie, you sound to me like a person who has a stronger conscience in this matter than me and I encourage you in it. With all sincerity I pray that if God chooses, God will guide me to a place where I can vote and participate in the political realm of the world “in faith,” but until that day comes, I feel like I made the most God-honoring decision that I could.
11/8/08 11:46 AM | Comment Link
sarah christoph said...
36OH WOW! – Joshua! That was the best two sentences ever… or at least really close! – "If we start dumping our black and white paint on everything, the whole world will be gray and no one will know what to do. Instead, we should listen to that voice in our lives that is the Holy Spirit saying “walk with me.” again, Wow! With so many voices of so many opinions, one's best chance at living and accomplishing His mission is by listening to the voice of the Holy Spirit. If we master that (I can only imagine) how our world would transform! thanks for sharing- I'm writing that down- so good Joshua!
11/8/08 9:24 PM | Comment Link
Stewart said...
37I’ve quickly skimmed over the text of the 30+ comments above. I haven’t read them all in detail which means that what I’m about to say may have already been noted in some fashion previously. If so, and this come across as repetitive, my apologies. However, based on your statement “But, for the life of me, when I try to envision Jesus living here and now, I just can’t see him walking into an election booth”, do you consider WWJD in everything you do? I’m sure you, like all of us, would like to say you do. But truth be told, we don’t.
Tell me, would Jesus visit Starbuck’s with the frequency that many Christians do? For that matter would he go at all? Wouldn’t that be capitulating to consumerism?
Would Jesus go to a movie? Would he be concerned over what it was rated? Would he laugh at the “off-color” jokes and statements? What if you were sitting with Him? Would you laugh?
What about sporting events? Would he go? Would he pay the high price of a ticket to get into a football game? If he did, whose side would he sit on? Would that mean the other side is “the Goats”? Would he be hurt at how Christians can be so boisterous and demonstrative for a team named after something worldly and show up to corporate worship and can’t wait till the worship leader allows them to sit down? Why aren’t we more excited in corporate worship? Would this be capitulating to entertainment(ism)? (sorry, that’s the best I could come up with)
Would Jesus use the internet? Could you see him sitting at a computer for hours writing, responding, and even arguing over whether it’s the “Old Testament” or the “First Testament”? Would he really care? Would He spend energy trying to prove His point of view and thereby proving the rest of us wrong? (Of course He would always win). I can’t remember one time in Scripture where it appeared he argued with anyone. He stated the truth in such a way the no one could argue. I think that if someone came to Him asking if it should be “Old” or “First”, he would either laugh at the trivialness of the issue or cry at the notion that we have reduced scripture to these types of discussions. Would this be capitulating to intellectualism?
If Jesus were here today, would he go to Church? Which one? (This brings up a pet-peeve of mine: So many people today, including authors, songwriter, speakers, and the such, are beating up the church like a ground-and-pound guy in the UFC. [yes, you’re right, I shouldn’t know what that is]. I’ve always understood that when Jesus was around, he went to the Temple regularly. He did speak out against the Jewish leaders of the day, but I don’t remember Him speaking badly to the people – the body. Yet today, there are Christians who speak and write so negatively about the Body of Christ. Why? What arrogance to speak out against His Bride just for the sake of being provocative!) If Jesus decided to go to Church, would he be capitulating to the religiosity of the day by choosing one church over another?
Personally, I can’t imagine Jesus doing any to these things. Except for maybe going to church. He would probably do that, but mess all of us Protestants up and go to a Catholic church. (Now that sounds like Jesus.) So is it wrong for Christians to do any of these things?
(And can someone please explain to me how in the world we can justify celebrating Halloween in any fashion? Why would Christians celebrate something that symbolizes evil and death? I’m sincerely puzzled by this!) Are we giving ourselves over to the world and it’s systems and powers by participating in them? In some ways we probably are.
Now I know that in the context of this last weeks elections and the notion of what is right for Christians to do related to that, the above activities may not be good comparisons. I don’t think you are trying to say that if a Christian decides to vote, and can do so in faith, that they are wrong for doing so. I also don’t believe you are saying that all Christians should not vote. This is a personal conviction of conscience for you. I appreciate that, no matter how misguided I may think it is. Your statements just provoked some thoughts in me that I wanted to share. I’d be interested to hear how misguided may think they are.
11/9/08 12:45 AM | Comment Link
Joshua said...
38Wow. What a lot of comments on this. I’m somewhat surprised that someone saying “This is what I think, but I don’t think anyone else has to agree with me” has illicited such a great discussion.
On one hand, I don’t think that JR’s entire argument is summed up in the WWJD discussion. It’s part of his argument, but the whole of his argument seems to be more centered around the fact that it was a personal conviction that he tried to honor. So far, no one has had a problem with that.
I too think that it is problematic when we begin to extend the and solidify the boundaries between the sacred and the profane. Going to church was sacred, now it’s profane. Going to the voting booth was sacred, now it’s profane. Going to the movies was profane, now its… well I guess that one’s up in the air. Dancing, Card playing, rock music… it goes on.
If you ask me, things in themselves are not sacred nor profane. It is our response to those things, does our experience with that thing drive us closer to God or pull us further from it? This is the voice we need to listen to. If we start dumping our black and white paint on everything, the whole world will be gray and no one will know what to do. Instead, we should listen to that voice in our lives that is the Holy Spirit saying “walk with me.” By doing this, we will find ourselves in the sacred.
And honestly, how dare we begin to assume that we might know what Jesus would do if he were here? I like to think that if Jesus were here he would do some of the things that I do, (like pray and eat) and he would do some of the things that I am too cowardly or comfortable to do (like talk to that guy, or stop drinking coffee at all), but I don’t know. My God is a pretty big thing, and I’m not going to pretend to have the slightest idea what he might do were he to show up walking around again. Because I don’t pretend to know what he would do on the sidewalk, I’ll try instead to listen to him as he stirs inside of me. And a lot of the time, I’ll miss.
11/9/08 1:54 AM | Comment Link
Joshua said...
39Well thank you very much Sarah, but I have to be honest, that’s basically just a rewording of the ideas I’ve been wrestling with from John Geib, a professor of mine from Malone
CollegeUniversity.11/9/08 1:41 PM | Comment Link
Joshua said...
40I also want to say that I think my comment was pretty much a summation of Stewarts comment. It appears as though we were really saying something very close to the same thing.
11/10/08 3:01 PM | Comment Link
JR Rozko said...
41Not sure why, but I didn’t get an email notifying me of your comments Stewart and Sarah – just Josh’s most recent one.
Stewart, I did address your concern about taking the WWJD thing too far in this comment. It is precisely when we go beyond what Jesus did and did not do in Scripture that we enter into the realm of seeking to follow the Spirit of God. I did my best to look at how Jesus lived his life in the political climate of his day and then pray that God would help me to act in accordance with that same Spirit. Also see my response to Laurie where I talked about seeking to do all that we do “in faith.” I would say that we would all do well to reflect on just how much of what we do actually flows out of the faith we profess in the God of the Bible. I will be the first to admit that much of my weekly routine does not fit that description and it scares me to think of the extent to which that doesn’t bother me. I have a long way to go in those terms.
I did also want to make 1 quick note on the Halloween reference. I am not sure if that was a general thought or one that related specifically to my post on my small group hosting a Halloween Party, but in either case I would point out that Jesus was quite fond of taking the customs of his day and flipping them on their head which is precisely what my friends and I did – and what many other followers of Jesus do. In no way did we celebrate evil or death. Rather, we sought to redeem the day my providing a life-giving atmosphere of hospitality, openness, and sharing. I am proud of my friends and any other beleivers that follow Jesus in this redemptive practice.
Thanks for the other comments. Josh, hope I didn’t overstep the bounds of infringing on your intellectual property by changing the html tags to strike through “College” in your comment
11/10/08 3:31 PM | Comment Link
Joshua said...
42What’s the correct code? Oh. Nvm. I just saw it on the bar above the stuff I’m currently writing. I’m so smart.
11/10/08 4:12 PM | Comment Link
Stewart said...
43JR,
Please know that my reference to “celebrating Halloween” had nothing to do with your post regarding your small group and the event with the international students. This is a conviction of mine. I have to say that I didn’t come to this conviction until I started raising children and did not want to create any confusion within their minds. I’m sure someone could argue about this, but I’m not interested in trying to be right on this. (I don’t know if you’ve ever heard the term “crawfishin’”, but I think I’m doing it.)
This was the first time I ever responded to anything that you have written. We have only talked a few times and the day we had lunch was a difficult day at best for me. I can’t even remember what we talked about because my mind was elsewhere. Anyway, what I am trying to say is that because we are not very familiar with each other, my posted comment may have come across as something personal. Please know that it was not. My final statements about being misguided were meant to be sarcastic, as was most of what I wrote, but I can see how they could easily be taken as condescending. My sincerest apologies!! As I stated in the final paragraph, your comments provoked thoughts in me that I wanted to share. They were not intended to be personal. I also was not trying to paint anything as black or white. I could not agree more with Joshua’s statements regarding painting things as black and white, and listening to Holy Spirit. Somehow that’s where I was going…maybe my route was not clear. The whole notion of WWJD can take us down a strange path. But it can be a useful tool as well at times. If nothing else, it will make us think about what we do. You described me to a tee with …“I will be the first to admit that much of my weekly routine does not fit that description and it scares me to think of the extent to which that doesn’t bother me.”
Yes Joshua, I believe we are saying the same thing…however you were considerably more eloquent. Your summation to my sarcasm was right on. Thanks.
I hope we can still be friends J
11/10/08 4:26 PM | Comment Link
An Invitational Politics | lifeasmission said...
44[...] devoted a more focused post to this topic a couple years ago, but I wanted to add another thought that came up in the midst of [...]
11/9/10 10:35 AM | Comment Link