• What To Do With Evil

    August 17, 2008

    Rick Warren and Saddleback Church hosted a forum where John McCain and Barack Obama answered a series of questions posed by Rick. One of the questions was,

    “Does evil exist, and if so, should it be ignored, negotiated with, contained, or defeated?”

    The clip is below, but in short Barack’s response was,

    “Evil does exist, and it must be confronted, but with humility as the eradication of evil is ultimately God’s task.”

    McCain was more straightforward,

    “Defeat it.”

    Just wondered if anyone wanted to comment on this before I try (maybe) to say something about it. The entire transcript for the forum is here (no longer available, but this links to a press release). And you can view the forum in 4 parts here.

    Posted in: church, politics, video

Recent Comments

  • Emily said...

    1

    Oooh, I was hoping you’d blog about this forum!  I didn’t get a chance to see it, but I’ve read a little about it.  Great clip—-recently I would’ve said “defeat it,” but now I agree more with Obama….I think we can be “soldiers” in the defeat of evil, recognizing that ultimately it’s God’s job, not ours…but never should we use methods that Jesus would not use in our attempts.  Jesus was confronted with evil daily in His ministry, and we have great examples of what He did to confront it.  The answers aren’t cut and dry, but I think the New Testament is pretty clear about how Christians are to respond to evil as we imitate Christ.  If God can use the death of His son as the ultimate defeat of evil, then it seems to me like smaller “defeats” will also look a bit upside-down and not make sense when we’re looking for a typical display of power as Jesus’ followers were.  And if not, then what in the world was Jesus talking about when he told us not to live by the sword and to show love to our enemies?  I think the process of being “soldiers” and participating in God’s defeat of evil is going to look a lot like the way Jesus treated the powers of evil in His day, not as an army with brandished swords ready to fight to the death in His name. (like Peter with the Roman soldier)  Maybe I should stop writing and just blog about it myself, this is getting long….  =)

    08/18/08 12:44 AM | Comment Link

  • wildflower said...

    2

    “Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor what is evil; cleave to that which is good. Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honor preferring one another; not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer; distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality. Bless those who presecute you, bless and curese not. Rejoice with them that rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Be of the same mind one to another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, ‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.’ Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him, if he thirst, give him drink, for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good.”

    08/18/08 7:29 PM | Comment Link

  • Ben Sternke said...

    3

    Just reading the quotes, Obama’s is closer to the New Testament message, it seems to me.

    08/18/08 10:14 PM | Comment Link

  • Susan said...

    4

    Evil does exist, and it will only be completely defeated when Satan is thrown into the lake of fire. Until then, we do have to confront evil in this world. Does God not use law enforcement, the court system, and even military to confront evil?

    This story in today’s Commercial Appeal is a blatant picture of Evil…
    http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/aug/20/3-men-accused-gang-rape/?feedback=1#comments

    I would hope that the men who did this will be brought to justice and pay the consequences for what they did. If the victim were me or a friend or family member, I would trust God for His grace to love my enemy, pray for them, and forgive them. But I would not want them walking the streets of Memphis.

    08/20/08 2:13 PM | Comment Link

  • Laura said...

    5

    I know what the Bible says regarding how an individual handles evil in his/her own life.  Is there a different way for a government to handle evil?  For example, I don’t personally go and punish a person who has stolen from me.  That would be most likely be vengeful anyway.  I do, however, think that it’s okay for the government to punish that person with either a fine or jail time.  Perhaps there’s some responses to evil that are appropriate for governments and inappropriate for individuals (See Romans 13). 

    08/21/08 4:35 PM | Comment Link

  • wildflower said...

    6

    “For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because it is possible of punishment but also because of conscience.  This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue, if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.” Rom. 13:3-6 

    > the above scripture from my previous quote was from Rom 12.  speaking of which…

    …”Overcome evil with good” … Do you think that sometimes “good” may look like giving a cup of water to the wrongdoer or enemy once you have kindly locked him behind the jail door?  Maybe Mercy can still triumph in the act of justice? Maybe we do our best to benefit the victims and the evildoers- recognizing that we have all at one time been one or the other.. and we have all needed love in the form of comfort at times and at times in the form of the rod- maybe both can be given out of love. … Just some thoughts, but I am not an expert on these matters.

    08/21/08 9:01 PM | Comment Link

  • Mandy said...

    7

    You’ve been tagged…. ckeck my blog

    08/21/08 10:07 PM | Comment Link

  • Nick G. said...

    8

    JR,
    Always checking your blog to be challenged in this faith we share. Thanks for being you.

    For all the commentors, I think we need some clarification on “evil”. I think Obama, McCain, and Joe Christian (us) may have different understandings when it comes to this idea. And, could we offer some examples. I think leaving a baby to die after an abortion gone bad (or abortion at all) would fall under the evil category. Where’s the confrontation? Where’s the justice? I’m not Rep or Dem, just a Christian first and an American second  trying to sort through this mess of an election. Although,  I take hope in the fact that regardless of who is elected, we will make it.  The King is still on the throne.

    08/22/08 11:15 AM | Comment Link

  • wildflower said...

    9

    Children are valuable to the Lord! And those who take the life of a child or neglect to help a life in need are definitely not walking in the love of Christ and have fallen out of touch with the value of humanity as a whole- which is evil in and of itself, not to mention so heartbreaking! I had 3 miscarriages myself, one in the second trimester- It was devistating, and I knew that I had lost my child, something I had bonded with already on an unexplainable level, not some animal organism that died- but my babies. That experience has paved the way for me to have a deeper love and appreciation for my current children who suffer from mental disabilities. Do you see God’s grace in that! Sometimes I grieve at how our nation has become so self centered, rebellious and apathetic for human life- we casually toss the abortion issue off to the side as if it was another person’s responsibility to fight for the unborn and take care of those mother’s children and mothers who make the right choice to have the baby. Thanks for bringing that up- i join you in that confrontation of evil and I think we can pray for this issue in this upcoming election- that it will not be forgotten. “If my people, who are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray, seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, I will heal their land.” Good heart you have there Nick! It’s refreshing to hear this from a guy. (I assume Nick is a dude name) :)

    08/22/08 6:04 PM | Comment Link

  • Sam Andress said...

    10

    Obama gave the theologically correct answer…

    08/25/08 10:41 PM | Comment Link

  • FYI: Fuller Youth Institute said...

    11

    [...] I have posts coming on both my recent trip to Afghanistan as well as a follow up to the video on how McCain and Obama each answered Rick Warren’s question about evil. [...]

    09/2/08 5:12 PM | Comment Link

  • Gut Thoughts on Government and Evil said...

    12

    [...] I have been positively stressing over how to construct my thoughts on the very different ways in which McCain and Obama addressed Rick Warren’s question on evil.  If you don’t know what I am talking about, check here. [...]

    09/2/08 8:33 PM | Comment Link

  • wildflower said...

    13

    Hi… a little scared to comment, but propelled by 2 things… first, I have a great need to understand the biblical response individuals are to have when faced with evil, and what response is biblically appropriate for governments to evil. Is there a difference? Second, I am being asked by friends and now my boss what my views are and which way I plan to vote. Politics has never been of much interest to me, but in the case of this election and in case of this particular question/answer session, I feel there is a spiritual pull to look deeper. Hope this makes sense. The moment I told my christian boss of the “what to do with evil” question, he told me that McCain gave the correct answer… I pulled out my bible at work and showed him Rom. 12, as I had already posted the passage on your blog. Then He said I needed to keep reading to Rom 13, where it outlines the difference between what individuals and governments have godly authority over in terms of facing evil. I did so and posted it as well so that I could hear if you or anyone else sees a difference. The reason this is important is not just because the Commander in cheif will have power to make life and death decisions for others, but it is also important that as persons who seek virtue, we have a clear understanding of it’s foe (evil) and how to deal with that foe, and how to vote with that foundation laid. I know you expressed in the other blog your “gut feeling” and diverted away from the theological response… but in all my comments, the biblical perspective is what I was really after, and hoping you’d expound on. (JR, you’re responses tend to differ from the norm christian response and carry an additional weight of admiration, :) but do not determine my beliefs in whole.) With that said, I’d love to hear your reasoning. No pressure. ;-)

    09/5/08 1:58 PM | Comment Link

  • wildflower said...

    14

    http://inhabitatiodei.wordpress.com/2008/09/05/messianic-politics-mccain-and-obama/

    09/6/08 12:04 PM | Comment Link

  • JR Rozko said...

    15

    Of course a full and appropriately nuanced answer to these questions is not possible here, but in brief I will say this.  Jesus' life and teaching are instructive for humanity, not merely humans.  Practices such as turning the other cheek (exposing someone's shame), forgiveness, and love of enemies are ways of being that put us (personally or nationally) on the side of God.  Are these ways to ensure power, privilege, or even survival, perhaps not, but then, that was never Jesus' intent.  Yes, governments are systems which God works in and through to provide justice, but this does not run contrary to these practices.  Rather, they are the very means of ensuring justice in its highest form.  That Christians are called to love while governments are called to mitigate out justice and punishment is a dichotomy which simply cannot stand biblically.  As love and justice cohere in God, so too they are to cohere in human ways of being, whether personally or corporately.

    09/7/08 4:01 PM | Comment Link

  • wildflower said...

    16

    Cool, thanks for the response! I’ve tried a way of explaining this to my boss (who is standing close by… so I’ll type quickly) – but then He uses the “God is the same, yesterday today, and forever…” and there were times in the old testiment that God commanded armies to take a city- killing people, etc. But see my argument then becomes – “Didn’t Jesus change it all? I mean just because God is the same yesterday today and forever doesn’t mean that He does not change directions for His people. His way became the new direction… “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” And my guess is that how he lived His live is the way all people, government or below should use as the example. … This may never actually happen- but how cool that would be! :)

    09/8/08 1:52 PM | Comment Link

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