Comments on: Childcare or Kingdom Community? http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2008/07/childcare-or-kingdom-community/ exploring the mystery of life and mission as one and the same Fri, 11 May 2012 20:06:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: jrrozko http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2008/07/childcare-or-kingdom-community/comment-page-1/#comment-7089 jrrozko Mon, 08 Nov 2010 20:57:06 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=613#comment-7089 Good thoughts Helen, thanks for stopping by. Good thoughts Helen, thanks for stopping by.

]]> By: helenleeauthor http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2008/07/childcare-or-kingdom-community/comment-page-1/#comment-7088 helenleeauthor Mon, 08 Nov 2010 19:35:15 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=613#comment-7088 Emily--I love the phrase "holy noises" that you wrote about. I think you've hit on a key issue with regards to making our worship services welcoming to children--noisy or not!--that up-front leaders have to affirm and encourage the presence of children, and set expectations to help the congregation understand the value of having the children amongst the adults for the service. Our church recently moved from having adult and children together for the singing time at the beginning of the service to sequestering the kids away, a decision which pained and still pains me greatly. The complaints were exactly about this issue of noise, and that the presence of children was distracting. In our consumeristic culture, we have transferred those same notions of "what is in it for me? what am I going to get out of it?" to our expectations of our church experiences, to everyone's detriment--the children in particular. There is so much blessing in having a time of multigenerational worship, but if the church leaders don't own and embrace this as a value of the church, it is much less likely to happen in a way that the children and parents feel welcome, if at all. Emily–I love the phrase "holy noises" that you wrote about. I think you've hit on a key issue with regards to making our worship services welcoming to children–noisy or not!–that up-front leaders have to affirm and encourage the presence of children, and set expectations to help the congregation understand the value of having the children amongst the adults for the service. Our church recently moved from having adult and children together for the singing time at the beginning of the service to sequestering the kids away, a decision which pained and still pains me greatly. The complaints were exactly about this issue of noise, and that the presence of children was distracting. In our consumeristic culture, we have transferred those same notions of "what is in it for me? what am I going to get out of it?" to our expectations of our church experiences, to everyone's detriment–the children in particular. There is so much blessing in having a time of multigenerational worship, but if the church leaders don't own and embrace this as a value of the church, it is much less likely to happen in a way that the children and parents feel welcome, if at all.

]]> By: JR Rozko http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2008/07/childcare-or-kingdom-community/comment-page-1/#comment-5005 JR Rozko Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:11:03 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=613#comment-5005 @Sarah - thanks for the thoughts.  Truly, we must value and treasure the responsibility God has given us for children. @Emily - you are officially not allowed to leave until you have passed your torch on to another. @Sarah – thanks for the thoughts.  Truly, we must value and treasure the responsibility God has given us for children.

@Emily – you are officially not allowed to leave until you have passed your torch on to another.

]]> By: Emily http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2008/07/childcare-or-kingdom-community/comment-page-1/#comment-5004 Emily Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:23:05 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=613#comment-5004 Great word, JR, and I'll take it even further... If we really want to embrace loving each other's kids and seeing them as a gift, I think we have a long ways to go in terms of having an openness to their actual presence IN our worship services.  We don't put Evelyne in the nursery because at this age, she can't handle it.  That's another thing entirely, but the point is that our parenting decision is to not put her there for her own best interest at this time.  So where does that leave us?  For the past six months or so it means that Clay and I go to different services and one of us stays home with Ev, thank God we have lived five minutes away or I don't know what we would've done.  Having a Family Room would be great, but logistically who knows if that would work in our context right now.  Ideally, I wish that our congregation would embrace the presence of young kids in the worship service when their parents choose to bring them.  It still feels like in our culture in general there is the assumption that children are to be seen and not heard and parents are made to feel like any noise their kid makes is a distraction to someone's worship.  What if we REALLY embraced putting ourselves out for the good of the kids in our community, both volunteering on Sunday mornings and in honoring the little noises from the back of the service as welcome and normal instead of an annoying distraction.  Having a church culture that approaches life together and seeing my child as a gift (and in honoring my parenting decision that may be different than the norm) in that way would speak volumes to me instead of people giving me weird looks when I don't sequester Evelyne to the nursery to cry her head off because "I need to worship."  My best friend is Orthodox and all the kids stay in their service.  She says everyone takes turns passing the babies around, older women enjoy bringing trinkets to church to entertain the toddlers for whom they've become another parent on Sunday morning.  The priest calls the noise of the children "holy noises."  Of course no one is talking about letting their kids run buck wild during the service, but in terms of seeing children as a gift to the community, we have a long way to go.   Great word, JR, and I’ll take it even further… If we really want to embrace loving each other’s kids and seeing them as a gift, I think we have a long ways to go in terms of having an openness to their actual presence IN our worship services.  We don’t put Evelyne in the nursery because at this age, she can’t handle it.  That’s another thing entirely, but the point is that our parenting decision is to not put her there for her own best interest at this time.  So where does that leave us?  For the past six months or so it means that Clay and I go to different services and one of us stays home with Ev, thank God we have lived five minutes away or I don’t know what we would’ve done.  Having a Family Room would be great, but logistically who knows if that would work in our context right now.  Ideally, I wish that our congregation would embrace the presence of young kids in the worship service when their parents choose to bring them.  It still feels like in our culture in general there is the assumption that children are to be seen and not heard and parents are made to feel like any noise their kid makes is a distraction to someone’s worship.  What if we REALLY embraced putting ourselves out for the good of the kids in our community, both volunteering on Sunday mornings and in honoring the little noises from the back of the service as welcome and normal instead of an annoying distraction.  Having a church culture that approaches life together and seeing my child as a gift (and in honoring my parenting decision that may be different than the norm) in that way would speak volumes to me instead of people giving me weird looks when I don’t sequester Evelyne to the nursery to cry her head off because “I need to worship.”  My best friend is Orthodox and all the kids stay in their service.  She says everyone takes turns passing the babies around, older women enjoy bringing trinkets to church to entertain the toddlers for whom they’ve become another parent on Sunday morning.  The priest calls the noise of the children “holy noises.”  Of course no one is talking about letting their kids run buck wild during the service, but in terms of seeing children as a gift to the community, we have a long way to go.  

]]> By: Sarah Christoph http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2008/07/childcare-or-kingdom-community/comment-page-1/#comment-5003 Sarah Christoph Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:57:47 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=613#comment-5003 Wow! I couldn't agree more- and not just because I have kids but because I was a kid once... we all were.  As a side note- I firmly believe that the good and bad of what I experienced as a child shaped my thinking of myself and my view of others and maybe even my view of God from even the young age of 4. Kids absorb so much info and they are constantly seeking the attention and love they need to gain a sense of security and identity that will help form a foundation for the rest of their precious lives.  For example, a lot of kids who are sexually abused are exposed to this nightmare because of a lack of involvement from those who weren't paying much attention to that child (too busy) or simply didn't care enough to respond to a "red flag" or - worse case- are those who actually do the abusing. As christians we need to be aware of our kids, involved with our kids, loving them so that, instead of always thinking they are "a hassle" or "a distraction," they think they are valuable; trust is built and in a time of crisis or pain they turn to us- the people who love them most.  I know you didn't write about child abuse- but it is so prevalent in our society - three in my own family experienced sexual abuse as children and all of us had to undo years of wrong thinking because of it. Neglect, abusive language, and physical abuse are other areas that can effect a child in equally impacting ways- I say all of this to say that as christians we need to recognize that Satan always strikes the most vulnerable of the pack- and as a community we need to gather and look out for our most vulnerable people -of any age. Thanks for sharing this JR. I admire your heart for the youngins'! :-) Wow! I couldn't agree more- and not just because I have kids but because I was a kid once… we all were.  As a side note- I firmly believe that the good and bad of what I experienced as a child shaped my thinking of myself and my view of others and maybe even my view of God from even the young age of 4. Kids absorb so much info and they are constantly seeking the attention and love they need to gain a sense of security and identity that will help form a foundation for the rest of their precious lives.  For example, a lot of kids who are sexually abused are exposed to this nightmare because of a lack of involvement from those who weren't paying much attention to that child (too busy) or simply didn't care enough to respond to a "red flag" or – worse case- are those who actually do the abusing. As christians we need to be aware of our kids, involved with our kids, loving them so that, instead of always thinking they are "a hassle" or "a distraction," they think they are valuable; trust is built and in a time of crisis or pain they turn to us- the people who love them most.  I know you didn't write about child abuse- but it is so prevalent in our society - three in my own family experienced sexual abuse as children and all of us had to undo years of wrong thinking because of it. Neglect, abusive language, and physical abuse are other areas that can effect a child in equally impacting ways- I say all of this to say that as christians we need to recognize that Satan always strikes the most vulnerable of the pack- and as a community we need to gather and look out for our most vulnerable people -of any age. Thanks for sharing this JR. I admire your heart for the youngins'! :-)

]]>