I have been going crazy trying to figure out how to write a post in response to all the great conversation that was going on in the comments of this last post. Thanks Josh and Andy for having such a thoughtful and even-handed discussion. I was going crazy because I was trying to figure out how to do too much in a single post. Instead, I’ll try to break it up into a few smaller ones.
Regarding the Emerging Church, Josh asked in his first comment, “Emerging from what?”
I would say that the most helpful part of the Emerging Church discussion/movement sees itself as emerging from the shackles of modernity. There are people and communities popping up all over the place who are being awakened to the effects that the Enlightenment, and more broadly, modernity, have had on the church. One of the most influential features of Western modernity was Christendom - a societal state in which the identity of a nation is intertwined with the identity of the Christian church. As our culture in the United States becomes increasingly post-modern and moves toward post-christendom, we are being given an opportunity to reflect on whether or not the church’s adoption of this state of affairs has been a good thing.
I know people in the emerging church movement for whom seemingly impassable dichotomies are being removed and replaced with profoundly liberating ways of thinking and living. Others are finding places of healing and redemption after being wounded by churches which made them feel inferior because either they didn’t conform or because their giftedness wasn’t valued (I am thinking here primarily of artisans). Many more have had a deep longing for more authentic and committed forms of community and they are discovering that in these sorts of churches. Still others had no tolerance for a form of faith that seemed to make no real difference in the way people actually lived their lives. In emerging churches, this is seldom the case. In fact, one of the ways emerging churches are defined is, “communities that practice the way of Jesus.”
A final thing that I hope we are emerging from is colonialism. This is something Brian McLaren (someone I have sat and shared meals with and have a profound respect for - sorry Andy) addresses in a recent article. For hundreds of years we in the West have taken not just the gospel to other countries, but we have taken our imperialistic ideology with it. People were compelled not just to become Christians, but to increasingly become just like Western Christians. We sought to offer people freedom in Christ, but wound up enslaving them to a distorted version of the Christian faith. Make no mistake, it is not coincidence that the people of Rwanda, whose almost entire population had converted to (Western Christianity), could kill each other by the hundreds of thousands.
Perhaps the single greatest feature of what Brian prefers to call “The Church Emerging,” is a state of humility in the face of what the church in the West has done and become.
Not everything that is happening in the emerging church movement or being said in the emerging church discussion is perfect or even helpful for that matter. I am happy to be the first to confess it. But then again, it’s emerging church folks who usually are 
7 responses so far ↓
1 Rick Royer // Aug 2, 2007 at 6:31 am
In a book called “Jim And Casper Go To Church”, Casper the aetheist asks the quesion of all questions about the church. No more specifically the Christian church in America: “Is this what Jesus told you guys to do?”
Well, is it? What if we’ve got it all wrong? Did Jesus come to start a religion or a movement? From where I’m sitting I see most American Churches……..building bigger churches. Maybe we need to become like that little mustard seed. Growing smaller and smaller as we take over the world.
Rick
2 Andy Hall // Aug 3, 2007 at 9:53 am
All I can say about this post is that I am disappointed. I am disappointed in its arrogance and completely oversimplified academic presupositions. I am sure that J.R. did not mean to come across this way, but it seems to be a trap that he falls into on a number of occassions. Where is the substantive response that you were promising? After all of Josh’s great recent posts, is this the way to respond to his question?
J.R., I am not attacking you, I was just eagerly anticipating your follow-up to your last article and what you have written seems to be just a half-baked reply. Sorry. I hope this doesn’t upset you.
3 JR Rozko // Aug 3, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Andy, I hope that you are not mistaking my attempt at brevity for arrogance or “oversimplified academic presuppositions.” Of course there is much more which could (and perhaps in another setting, ought to) be said regarding matters of the status of the church in Western culture and its history of mission, but my point was singular - to introduce some of those things which the “Emerging Church” understands itself as emerging from. In that regard, much of what I said was merely descriptive. If those descriptions are problematic, then I suppose what we have is whole new course of discussion.
Let’s leave it to Josh to decide how helpful or not helpful my response was to his question.
In the mean time, if you have some more specific critiques or responses to what I actually said, I’d love to dialog. However, you have me at a loss since you never responded to my initial question to your first comment on my previous post - Who are you, where are you coming from? I think getting to know you a little bit more (as much as that’s ever really possible in a venue like this) might help me to articulate better responses.
4 Andy Hall // Aug 3, 2007 at 8:13 pm
I am Andy Hall. I have a Ph.d from Princeton Seminary. I currently reside in Lisdoonvarna, Ireland. My passion is the Gospels, particularly the Gospel of John. I am currently writing on the parables of Jesus.
Tell me more about yourself J.R. ………………..
5 JR Rozko // Aug 3, 2007 at 11:49 pm
Well, a lot about me can of course be gleaned from this blog and especially the “about me” page. But, some highlights…
Born and raised in Ohio. Played football in high school and soccer in college. I was originally a pre-law major, but switched to youth ministry when I finally wised up are realized where all the real money was. I had an amazing experience with Christian community in college and after. It’s one of the main reasons that I will be moving back home in a month or so - to continue sharing life with the people who mean the most to me. I was baptized an Episcopalian as an infant, came to Christ through some FCA (Fellowship of Christan Athletes) folks in high school, and have had experiences with smaller, traditional protestant churches, the Catholic church, seeker-sensitive type mega-churches, the Presbyterian church, a Mennonite congregation, and most recently, a house church community.
A lot of my family is back in Ohio, but one of the main reasons I came to Fuller was to spend a few years with my dad, step-mom, brother, and sister. This has been a fantastic season of life with them and I will miss them dearly.
I am not married and I envision giving the rest of my life to the creation and cultivation of missional church communities in one way or another.
Good to start to get to know you Andy.
6 Rick Royer // Aug 4, 2007 at 4:42 am
You’re moving back! Sweet! We can talk about this stuff over coffee. McDonald’s cause I’m to cheap to go to Starbucks. Although there may be more Starbucks in Stark County, Ohio than McD. No kidding.
Love reading this dialogue. Neat that Andy happened upon it from Ireland. I had the author of a book I reviewed post a comment on my blog. I guess that’s what this is all about.
When I say “see ya soon” I guess that’s literal this time.
Rick
7 joshua elek // Aug 5, 2007 at 12:51 pm
I think you have pretty accurately described what the emerging church wants to emerge from. I do think that those are many of the things that the regular church is trying to emerge from as well. In some circumstances, I believe churches are hoping beyond hope that postmodernity will die out, but let’s be honest. It won’t, and nor should it. Read through “The Transforming Vision” and “Truth is Stranger than it Used to Be” and I think you’ll see how the church can emerge from Postmodernity without emerging from the Church.
This does however leave something to be said about the second half of the question. To what is this movement hoping to emerge? I know that this is the larger of the two questions, and I know that the responding post must be an oversimplification of the question… but I’m eager to hear what an oversimplified answer might be. Often times, the tightened up, shortened quote about a movement describes the whole thing quite well. Just as a picture often has a thousand things to say.
In regard to Andy’s comment, I partly agree. It is an arrogant post, it is oversimplified, and it is full of academic presuppositions. However, in order to stand in the face of something so large as the church, one must be arrogant to some degree. It is oversimplified, but as JR said, for this venue, it must be. And it definitely contains academic presuppositions, but because JR is writing from a postmodern point of view, his response must be full of academic presuppositions. (How could we possibly have a discussion about postmodernity without addressing our academic presuppositions?)
Maybe Andy’s comment said quite a bit about the emerging church. It is full of academic presuppositions, it is somewhat arrogant, and it is in some manner overly simple. JR? Andy? Your thoughts?
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