Comments on: Revolution or Revolt http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2006/02/revolution-or-revolt/ exploring the mystery of life and mission as one and the same Wed, 25 Jan 2012 16:31:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: sarah christoph http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2006/02/revolution-or-revolt/comment-page-1/#comment-5029 sarah christoph Fri, 08 Aug 2008 00:11:38 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=130#comment-5029 I see what you're saying here- and I'm not a person who is against church or community- heck! I was pretty desperate for it not too long ago- remember! I guess what I'm saying is that I appreciate the prespective of going back to the basics- even the first commandments, that we love God and worship Him above all else- then we love each other. If the churches or community of believers is not coming closer to Christ, there may be a need to step away from that frame and handed-down format to come back to the basics. Look at churches that are flourishing with people (like Joel Olsteen's church)  but not necessarily being lead or tought the true message of Christ... and how many pastors across America and around the globe preach their own versions of the "popular and accepted sermons"- easy on the ears sermons that people like Joel pop out with.. I mean with every new book- geez! No church is perfect, but there is a differnce between an imperfect church and a dangerous or unsafe church. How many churches are beoming exactly that- and if you lose trust in the local church what else do you do but seek God and community outside it's walls. Maybe revolutionaries have a point! :-) I see what you’re saying here- and I’m not a person who is against church or community- heck! I was pretty desperate for it not too long ago- remember! I guess what I’m saying is that I appreciate the prespective of going back to the basics- even the first commandments, that we love God and worship Him above all else- then we love each other. If the churches or community of believers is not coming closer to Christ, there may be a need to step away from that frame and handed-down format to come back to the basics. Look at churches that are flourishing with people (like Joel Olsteen’s church)  but not necessarily being lead or tought the true message of Christ… and how many pastors across America and around the globe preach their own versions of the “popular and accepted sermons”- easy on the ears sermons that people like Joel pop out with.. I mean with every new book- geez! No church is perfect, but there is a differnce between an imperfect church and a dangerous or unsafe church. How many churches are beoming exactly that- and if you lose trust in the local church what else do you do but seek God and community outside it’s walls. Maybe revolutionaries have a point!

:-)

]]> By: JR Rozko http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2006/02/revolution-or-revolt/comment-page-1/#comment-5027 JR Rozko Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:01:39 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=130#comment-5027 This is a pretty complex issue, but I believe the heart of the matter is that inasmuch as God is a relational being and created us to exist in relationship, not just with him, but with others, then there is no way I can ever know God truly and deeply apart from being in relationship with others.  While the Holy Spirit may work with us personally, He is first and foremost the presence of God in a community.  This is precisely why the church is so important.  It is no mere collection of individuals, but something altogether more - a communal expression of Christ's body.  The picture held out to us in Scripture of heaven is not an eternity of a 1-1 relationship with God, but the perfect restoration of relationships and community in which God dwells fully. This is a pretty complex issue, but I believe the heart of the matter is that inasmuch as God is a relational being and created us to exist in relationship, not just with him, but with others, then there is no way I can ever know God truly and deeply apart from being in relationship with others.  While the Holy Spirit may work with us personally, He is first and foremost the presence of God in a community.  This is precisely why the church is so important.  It is no mere collection of individuals, but something altogether more – a communal expression of Christ's body.  The picture held out to us in Scripture of heaven is not an eternity of a 1-1 relationship with God, but the perfect restoration of relationships and community in which God dwells fully.

]]> By: sarah christoph http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2006/02/revolution-or-revolt/comment-page-1/#comment-5025 sarah christoph Thu, 07 Aug 2008 04:40:05 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=130#comment-5025 JR, I'm going to read the rest of the book, but before I do, I want to comment on what you just said here: "<em>I think I would close in saying that what Barna has seen is better defined as a revolt than a revolution. People have tried the church and found it lacking. Their only recourse has been to leave what is common and seek to find and follow God on their own terms. This is not what we should encourage and not the vision I believe is held out for us in Scripture."  </em>Ok... I did not go to school for this, and you did, but i want to question what you said here.  I'm not seeing a problem with leaving what is common (if it's not functioning properly) to figure out a way to discover God and His plan on your own- yes all by yourself on your own terms (you have no one elses ultimately) if need be... and isn't it true that as one discovers God they simultaniously discover His plan for  relationships, finances, mission, etc... The disciples each met Jesus outside temple walls and followed him, leaving behind what was "common and lacking" to discover Jesus for themselves.  If one is truly seeking God with all their heart they will find Him - with or without a church OR even a community as a buffer between them and God. That's a biblical promise without exceptions and I'm counting on it because I want to know God, and keep finding Him no matter what happends to my local church.... their is a command to make disciples, but clearly Barna sees being the Church (C) as doing just that- as an overflow or fruit of knowing God.  If I sound a little defensive it is probably because I am... I find myself struggling in church group discussions about God- mainly because it seems everyone holds a degree and everyone knows and quotes scripture and none of this is bad per say, but I sometimes get the impression that in order to truly KNOW my savior, i just need to spend more time with educated church people and get teaching from a "man of God" at the pulpit.  Not that this is out of place, but Jesus gave us His Holy Spirit to guide us, and the word (fortunately I am literate at least) but... what if I wasn't and I lived at the North Pole.... do you see where I'm going with this? Would seeking God with my whole heart not end in finding Him in that scenario? I don't believe it would change a thing. I am going to finish the book, but what it seems like so far is Christians are waking up to their desperation to have more of God and less of man, especially if they sense a need to revolt (which is the same thing as revolutionize -to me anyways) against the current flow of knowing all "about" God "education" and actually knowing God. Like Daniel, like David, like Moses did. I don't think 'people perish for lack of knowledge'... of theology or community, but they perish- truly perish without knowing God himself... right?  The "vision held out for us" is what exactly...? See I am hoping for heaven to be more like a honeymoon (being as close to God as possible) than a family reunion in a bunch of mansios outlined in gold streets, honestly this just doesn't excite me. JR, I’m going to read the rest of the book, but before I do, I want to comment on what you just said here: “I think I would close in saying that what Barna has seen is better defined as a revolt than a revolution. People have tried the church and found it lacking. Their only recourse has been to leave what is common and seek to find and follow God on their own terms. This is not what we should encourage and not the vision I believe is held out for us in Scripture.” 
Ok… I did not go to school for this, and you did, but i want to question what you said here.  I’m not seeing a problem with leaving what is common (if it’s not functioning properly) to figure out a way to discover God and His plan on your own- yes all by yourself on your own terms (you have no one elses ultimately) if need be… and isn’t it true that as one discovers God they simultaniously discover His plan for  relationships, finances, mission, etc… The disciples each met Jesus outside temple walls and followed him, leaving behind what was “common and lacking” to discover Jesus for themselves.  If one is truly seeking God with all their heart they will find Him – with or without a church OR even a community as a buffer between them and God. That’s a biblical promise without exceptions and I’m counting on it because I want to know God, and keep finding Him no matter what happends to my local church…. their is a command to make disciples, but clearly Barna sees being the Church (C) as doing just that- as an overflow or fruit of knowing God.  If I sound a little defensive it is probably because I am… I find myself struggling in church group discussions about God- mainly because it seems everyone holds a degree and everyone knows and quotes scripture and none of this is bad per say, but I sometimes get the impression that in order to truly KNOW my savior, i just need to spend more time with educated church people and get teaching from a “man of God” at the pulpit.  Not that this is out of place, but Jesus gave us His Holy Spirit to guide us, and the word (fortunately I am literate at least) but… what if I wasn’t and I lived at the North Pole…. do you see where I’m going with this? Would seeking God with my whole heart not end in finding Him in that scenario? I don’t believe it would change a thing. I am going to finish the book, but what it seems like so far is Christians are waking up to their desperation to have more of God and less of man, especially if they sense a need to revolt (which is the same thing as revolutionize -to me anyways) against the current flow of knowing all “about” God “education” and actually knowing God. Like Daniel, like David, like Moses did. I don’t think ‘people perish for lack of knowledge’… of theology or community, but they perish- truly perish without knowing God himself… right?  The “vision held out for us” is what exactly…? See I am hoping for heaven to be more like a honeymoon (being as close to God as possible) than a family reunion in a bunch of mansios outlined in gold streets, honestly this just doesn’t excite me.

]]> By: Scot McKnight - The Whole Gospel | lifeasmission http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2006/02/revolution-or-revolt/comment-page-1/#comment-4634 Scot McKnight - The Whole Gospel | lifeasmission Tue, 17 Jul 2007 04:26:07 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=130#comment-4634 [...] beginning of his message he talks about the 20 million or so (says Barna in this book - my review here) believers in the United States who have chosen to live out thir Christian lives as part of house [...] [...] beginning of his message he talks about the 20 million or so (says Barna in this book – my review here) believers in the United States who have chosen to live out thir Christian lives as part of house [...]

]]> By: gathering | inlight.com - » Reading for Revolution - George Barna and the Emerging Church http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2006/02/revolution-or-revolt/comment-page-1/#comment-4535 gathering | inlight.com - » Reading for Revolution - George Barna and the Emerging Church Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:55:20 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=130#comment-4535 [...] more indepth reviews check out: Revolution or Revolt Revolution by George Barna From little c to Big C [...] [...] more indepth reviews check out: Revolution or Revolt Revolution by George Barna From little c to Big C [...]

]]> By: gathering in light - Blog Archive » How to Blog for Theology and Religion http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2006/02/revolution-or-revolt/comment-page-1/#comment-252 gathering in light - Blog Archive » How to Blog for Theology and Religion Thu, 18 May 2006 04:17:26 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=130#comment-252 [...] Some great book reviews are: A Review of DA Carson’s “Becoming Conversant…” Read this Review On Barna’s Revolution Of course my own on the Emerging Churches [...] [...] Some great book reviews are: A Review of DA Carson’s “Becoming Conversant…” Read this Review On Barna’s Revolution Of course my own on the Emerging Churches [...]

]]> By: Bayard Taylor http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2006/02/revolution-or-revolt/comment-page-1/#comment-178 Bayard Taylor Sat, 22 Apr 2006 03:33:08 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=130#comment-178 Hi JR, Nice site, and thanks for the review of Barna's book. This may seem a little basic for a seminary student, but I've just written a simple, fun beginner's book on the concept of worldview, the major worldviews, and the biblical worldview. I want to reach pre-, mid- and post-college students, along with anybody else who wants to be a more confident, effective public representative of Christian faith in an increasingly pluralistic and postmodern culture. It's called Blah, Blah, Blah: Making Sense of the World's Spiritual Chatter (Bethany House, releasing May 3). You can read all about it, including downloading the first three chapters, at blahblahbook.com. There you can also find endorsements by Christian leaders, testimonies of kids, study questions, tips on how to teach worldviews, a bio and a blog. It would be great to hear what you as a seminary student think of this book. It would be probably be a nice, light, fun diversion from your normal fare of thick, dense theological tomes. --Bayard Hi JR,

Nice site, and thanks for the review of Barna’s book.

This may seem a little basic for a seminary student, but I’ve just written a simple, fun beginner’s book on the concept of worldview, the major worldviews, and the biblical worldview.

I want to reach pre-, mid- and post-college students, along with anybody else who wants to be a more confident, effective public representative of Christian faith in an increasingly pluralistic and postmodern culture.

It’s called Blah, Blah, Blah: Making Sense of the World’s Spiritual Chatter (Bethany House, releasing May 3). You can read all about it, including downloading the first three chapters, at blahblahbook.com. There you can also find endorsements by Christian leaders, testimonies of kids, study questions, tips on how to teach worldviews, a bio and a blog.

It would be great to hear what you as a seminary student think of this book. It would be probably be a nice, light, fun diversion from your normal fare of thick, dense theological tomes.

–Bayard

]]> By: Dave http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2006/02/revolution-or-revolt/comment-page-1/#comment-84 Dave Sat, 04 Feb 2006 03:11:55 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/?p=130#comment-84 Thought I was the only one... Thought I was the only one…

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